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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Module Queries (was Grub2 and Fedora 23) (Steve King)
2. Re: Module Queries (was Grub2 and Fedora 23) (Peter Hemmings)
3. Re: Module Queries (was Grub2 and Fedora 23) (Peter Hemmings)
4. Re: Module Queries (was Grub2 and Fedora 23) (Sebastian)
5. Re: Module Queries (was Grub2 and Fedora 23) (Steve King)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:50:44 +0100
From: "Steve King" <steve@invux.com>
To: "Bristol and Bath Linux User Group" <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Module Queries (was Grub2 and Fedora 23)
Message-ID:
<e926b45293f549803430f1bfe3ae0d2f.squirrel@dazzle.invux.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> After my recent experiences, I realize I am not sure how/when modules
> are loaded and for the benefit of others like me, some clarification my
> be of some help!
Modules are actually contained in two separate areas. The first is
/lib/modules and the second is the initial ram disk.
The initial ram disk is created each time up upgrade or install a new
kernel, and takes a sub-set of the modules in /lib/modules.
the initial ram disk (initrd) is loaded along side the kernel by the boot
loader, GRUB in your case.
In theory the initrd only contains the modules necessary to mount the root
filesystem, but normally there are a few others in there (most of the
initrd creation scripts err on the side of too many rather than too few)
Once / is mounted, additional can be loaded directly from /lib/modules.
You can extract /boot/initrd.img-<kernel version>, on my debian system it
is a gzipped cpio archive.
$ mkdir /tmp/foo
$ cd /tmp/foo
$ gzip -d < /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-amd64 | cpio --extract
You will see that the initrd has its own /lib/modules
I think there is a size limit on initrd imposed by GRUB2 of 350 or so Mbytes.
Thus my previous email about you booting fedora core using the mint kernel.
You would only see the mint initrd modules loaded as the ones in fedora
core /lib/modules would not be compatible with the mint kernel.
Regards,
--
Steve
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:56:06 +0100
From: Peter Hemmings <peternsomerset@virginmedia.com>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Module Queries (was Grub2 and Fedora 23)
Message-ID: <56FAA596.6010402@virginmedia.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Shane,
On 29/03/16 15:24, Shane McEwan wrote:
> On 29/03/16 14:14, Peter Hemmings wrote:
>> 1. Are some modules modules loaded from the kernel and any
>> others downloaded as required on installation or are they all in
>> the kernel now?
>
> When you say "modules" you're really talking about "kernel modules".
> Back in the olden days the Linux kernel didn't have modules. Drivers
> needed to be compiled into the kernel. If you had exotic hardware
> you would often need to recompile the whole kernel because the
> drivers you needed weren't included in there by default. Fun times.
> When the kernel module functionality was added kernel drivers were
> gradually modularised and now almost all drivers run as modules.
OK
>
> On my Ubuntu system (I can't remember about Fedora) I can look at the
> `/boot/config-$(uname -r)` file and see what options the kernel was
> compiled with. Settings marked with "y" are compiled into the
> kernel, settings with "m" are built as modules for optional loading
> at boot time.
OK just checked and it is the same.
>
> Most distros package the modules into separate packages so you can
> selectively choose what hardware to support. If the modules you need
> are not included in a default install package list then you'll need
> to manually install the packages in order to get the modules for the
> kernel. That might mean downloading the RPM files on a machine that
> has Internet access, putting the files onto a USB stick, and manually
> installing the packages in order to get network access working.
I have never had to do that in Fedora updates in the last 4-5 years so
(I assume) my laptop drivers/modules were always built in.
>
>> 2. If modules are from both places are they all listed with
>> modprobe?
>
> `lsmod` you mean?
Ooops - that's what I meant!
That will list all the dynamically loaded modules.
> It won't list the drivers compiled directly into the kernel.
OK
>
>> 3. Is it possible that my wireless module has been reduced to
>> semi-redundant and in the latest kernels now needs iwlegacy to run
>> iwl3945?
>
> I think iwlegacy is just the new name for some old Intel modules that
> are probably not being developed any more. You might need to add
> iwl3945 to the /etc/modules file to make sure it loads on boot but I
> would have thought it would be automatic.
It must be as I have not added anything and its loaded.
>
>> 4. If the above was the case then is it possible that previous
>> kernels had the module and just worked, but now I have to download
>> it?
>
> It's possible. Newer distros might change what modules are installed
> and enabled by default. Particularly if they're old and unstable or
> the kernel module ABI has changed and they're no longer compatible or
> taint the kernel in some way. The fact that your wireless driver
> seems to have moved into something called "iwlegacy" seems to
> indicate that it's pretty old!
No, I was just assuming they were somehow linked to each other but
don't know if that's correct!
>
>> The reason I asked the last question is that I thought I fedora
>> installations worked without internet connections previously. I
>> also thought live installs required some form of internet
>> connection cable or WiFi before allowing it to go ahead. I do not
>> however thing I had to configure WiFi before installing Fedora so
>> assume that was my main problem.
>
> Quite often the live install images have a lot of hardware drivers
> enabled by default to ensure they'll work on as much hardware as
> possible. I don't know whether the installer is smart enough to then
> also install those required drivers when installing the system.
> Depending on the live CD it might have enough packages on it to
> install the system without a network connection. Some, however, only
> have the minimum number of packages to get a system up and running
> and if you have weird hardware you might find that stuff doesn't work
> after installation.
OK
>
> Shane.
>
> _______________________________________________ Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
Thanks again for the explanation, it was quite revealing what was in
/boot/config-$(uname -r)!
--
Peter H
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:18:02 +0100
From: Peter Hemmings <peternsomerset@virginmedia.com>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Module Queries (was Grub2 and Fedora 23)
Message-ID: <56FAAABA.9070106@virginmedia.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
On 29/03/16 16:50, Steve King wrote:
>> After my recent experiences, I realize I am not sure how/when modules
>> are loaded and for the benefit of others like me, some clarification my
>> be of some help!
>
> Modules are actually contained in two separate areas. The first is
> /lib/modules and the second is the initial ram disk.
>
> The initial ram disk is created each time up upgrade or install a new
> kernel, and takes a sub-set of the modules in /lib/modules.
> the initial ram disk (initrd) is loaded along side the kernel by the boot
> loader, GRUB in your case.
> In theory the initrd only contains the modules necessary to mount the root
> filesystem, but normally there are a few others in there (most of the
> initrd creation scripts err on the side of too many rather than too few)
>
> Once / is mounted, additional can be loaded directly from /lib/modules.
>
> You can extract /boot/initrd.img-<kernel version>, on my debian system it
> is a gzipped cpio archive.
> $ mkdir /tmp/foo
> $ cd /tmp/foo
> $ gzip -d < /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-amd64 | cpio --extract
Probably me, but it did not work. I have a
/boot/initramfs-4.4.3-300.fc23.x86_64.img, should I be able to extract
that!?
>
> You will see that the initrd has its own /lib/modules
>
> I think there is a size limit on initrd imposed by GRUB2 of 350 or so Mbytes.
>
> Thus my previous email about you booting fedora core using the mint kernel.
> You would only see the mint initrd modules loaded as the ones in fedora
> core /lib/modules would not be compatible with the mint kernel.
Thanks for the useful info above, it is a lot clearer now and indeed
looks like the answer.
FWIW I have up till recently only had one Linux distro when dual booting
and the above problem did not occur. I only added Mint because there
was a lot on good howto's that helped me understand how to install
Wordpress locally!!
I now wished I had not done it, but it is now all working.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Steve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>
Regards
--
Peter H
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:28:50 +0100
From: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>,
sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Module Queries (was Grub2 and Fedora 23)
Message-ID: <56FAAD42.8030802@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> FWIW I have up till recently only had one Linux distro when dual
> booting and the above problem did not occur. I only added Mint
> because there was a lot on good howto's that helped me understand how
> to install Wordpress locally!!
>
> I now wished I had not done it, but it is now all working.
Hi Peter
I wondered why you installed Mint. Oh Wordpress ok, what you doing with
Wordpress? And nah muti booting Linux distro's can be part of the Linux
fun :). I'll be setting up a nice multi boot on this lap top when I
bother to do it hmm.
Regards
Sebastian
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:32:52 +0100
From: Steve King <steve@invux.com>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Module Queries (was Grub2 and Fedora 23)
Message-ID: <85j5mp4y8dk831y8d3mt8hqk.1459272772031@email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I don't know what fc uses. Is it squashfs?
What does file say it is?
--
Steve
Sent from my phone
-------- Original Message --------
From:Peter Hemmings <peternsomerset@virginmedia.com>
Sent:Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:18:02 +0100
To:Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject:Re: [bristol] Module Queries (was Grub2 and Fedora 23)
>
>
>On 29/03/16 16:50, Steve King wrote:
>>> After my recent experiences, I realize I am not sure how/when modules
>>> are loaded and for the benefit of others like me, some clarification my
>>> be of some help!
>>
>> Modules are actually contained in two separate areas. The first is
>> /lib/modules and the second is the initial ram disk.
>>
>> The initial ram disk is created each time up upgrade or install a new
>> kernel, and takes a sub-set of the modules in /lib/modules.
>> the initial ram disk (initrd) is loaded along side the kernel by the boot
>> loader, GRUB in your case.
>> In theory the initrd only contains the modules necessary to mount the root
>> filesystem, but normally there are a few others in there (most of the
>> initrd creation scripts err on the side of too many rather than too few)
>>
>> Once / is mounted, additional can be loaded directly from /lib/modules.
>>
>> You can extract /boot/initrd.img-<kernel version>, on my debian system it
>> is a gzipped cpio archive.
>> $ mkdir /tmp/foo
>> $ cd /tmp/foo
>> $ gzip -d < /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-amd64 | cpio --extract
>
>Probably me, but it did not work. I have a
>/boot/initramfs-4.4.3-300.fc23.x86_64.img, should I be able to extract
>that!?
>
>>
>> You will see that the initrd has its own /lib/modules
>>
>> I think there is a size limit on initrd imposed by GRUB2 of 350 or so Mbytes.
>>
>> Thus my previous email about you booting fedora core using the mint kernel.
>> You would only see the mint initrd modules loaded as the ones in fedora
>> core /lib/modules would not be compatible with the mint kernel.
>
>
>Thanks for the useful info above, it is a lot clearer now and indeed
>looks like the answer.
>
>FWIW I have up till recently only had one Linux distro when dual booting
>and the above problem did not occur. I only added Mint because there
>was a lot on good howto's that helped me understand how to install
>Wordpress locally!!
>
>I now wished I had not done it, but it is now all working.
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> --
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bristol mailing list
>> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>>
>
>Regards
>--
>Peter H
>
>_______________________________________________
>Bristol mailing list
>Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
>https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
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