Bristol Digest, Vol 603, Issue 2

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Today's Topics:

1. External USB drives (jpff)
2. Re: External USB drives (Amias Channer)
3. Re: External USB drives (Neil Fraser)
4. Re: External USB drives (Alex Butcher)
5. Re: Journalctl - Slow shutdown (Fedora) (Peter Hemmings)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 17:03:12 +0100 (BST)
From: jpff <jpff@codemist.co.uk>
To: bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
Subject: [bristol] External USB drives
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1506011655230.28171@snout.codemist.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII

I am contemplating extending my system with a new backup disk, and have
been looking mainly at 2Tb USB3.0 portable fisks, such as WD "Muy
Passort", Sasung M3, etc. Reading various reviews there seemsa 10%
failure rate for these devices in the first year, whic seems a lot.
Various drives come with Windows software which is useless. I would
contemplate formatting as ext or btrfs anyway. The USB powered feature is
a defiite plus

Does anyone have any experiences, good or bad?

An alternative would be to use an Icybox enclosure and insert my own disk,
but that looks a more expersive solution

==John ff




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 17:32:24 +0100
From: Amias Channer <me@amias.net>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] External USB drives
Message-ID:
<CAMgU7XVVU3X14Deot8NMFEpA1e0-Bd_ZO2AmUquVCj+yHL0h+w@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hello John,

It might help to know about how much you expect to backup when making
recommendations here.
Daily incrementals of documents or system images of VM have very
different requirements on a drive.

USB powered is handy but it will limit the performance of the drive
and require you to have 2.5 inch drives.

For an actual hard disk i'm not sure you are likely to need usb3
transfer speeds, ISTR that you need to use SSD to get that fast.

Cheers
Amias

On 1 June 2015 at 17:03, jpff <jpff@codemist.co.uk> wrote:
> I am contemplating extending my system with a new backup disk, and have been
> looking mainly at 2Tb USB3.0 portable fisks, such as WD "Muy Passort",
> Sasung M3, etc. Reading various reviews there seemsa 10% failure rate for
> these devices in the first year, whic seems a lot. Various drives come with
> Windows software which is useless. I would contemplate formatting as ext or
> btrfs anyway. The USB powered feature is a defiite plus
>
> Does anyone have any experiences, good or bad?
>
> An alternative would be to use an Icybox enclosure and insert my own disk,
> but that looks a more expersive solution
>
> ==John ff
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 18:48:57 +0100
From: Neil Fraser <nfraser@nadtechnology.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] External USB drives
Message-ID:
<CA+Pd-Um1roeydaM8wpVfuPDY1Ky_OZC1sizMM_Zn34f-pLmNrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi

I have 2 of the "WD My Passport" devices, both 2Gb and both been reliable
so far.

The Windows software is not "useless", especially if you work in a
heterogeneous environment which includes Windows computers.

The HD performance is above USB2 speeds so a USB 3.x port is the best way
to utilise them especially as you get slightly more current out of a
standard USB 3.0 port than standard USB2

To be honest, at the prices they are currently, does it matter if one fails
after a few years - it will still be the cheapest way of backup up
multi-terrabyte data. All disks fail. If fails in the first year you'll get
a new one free from the supplier anyway.

HTH

Neil





On 1 June 2015 at 17:03, jpff <jpff@codemist.co.uk> wrote:

> I am contemplating extending my system with a new backup disk, and have
> been looking mainly at 2Tb USB3.0 portable fisks, such as WD "Muy Passort",
> Sasung M3, etc. Reading various reviews there seemsa 10% failure rate for
> these devices in the first year, whic seems a lot. Various drives come with
> Windows software which is useless. I would contemplate formatting as ext
> or btrfs anyway. The USB powered feature is a defiite plus
>
> Does anyone have any experiences, good or bad?
>
> An alternative would be to use an Icybox enclosure and insert my own disk,
> but that looks a more expersive solution
>
> ==John ff
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 18:58:05 +0100 (BST)
From: Alex Butcher <lug@assursys.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] External USB drives
Message-ID:
<alpine.LRH.2.11.1506011846540.11566@zlgugi.of5.nffheflf.cev>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"; Format="flowed"

On Mon, 1 Jun 2015, Amias Channer wrote:

> Hello John,
>
> It might help to know about how much you expect to backup when making
> recommendations here.
> Daily incrementals of documents or system images of VM have very
> different requirements on a drive.
>
> USB powered is handy but it will limit the performance of the drive
> and require you to have 2.5 inch drives.

I agree.

> For an actual hard disk i'm not sure you are likely to need usb3
> transfer speeds, ISTR that you need to use SSD to get that fast.

A modern HDD can manage 200MByte/s at the rim, and USB 2.0 tends to peter
out at about 30-40MByte/s. So USB 3.0 is probably worthwhile, as long as
you're not going for puny 2.5" bus-powered drives.

As for models, I recommend Hitachi XL and WD Elements drives. The latter
seem to have WDxxEZRX drives inside (usually about ?30 more than the
equivalent WD Elements external, though with a longer warranty), if my 5TB
models are representative. Seagate seem to be currently less reliable. I'd
also recommend buying two drives so that you can alternate your backups onto
different drives. It also gives you a spare official PSU in case one fails
(a common failure mode, and often senselessly necessitating returning the
whole package, drive included, in order to obtain a warranty replacement; at
least with a spare you can wipe it before returning it).

As far as filesystems go, don't underestimate the value of having a cross-OS
filesystem; your future needs might be different to your current ones and
having your files on a better-performing-but-uncommon filesystem may be a
liability in the long run.

The USB/SATA bridge chipsets and PSUs used by DIY caddies tend to be rather
awful, so I wouldn't bother with those. Never mind that you usually end up
paying more for the bare drive than the same drive pre-installed in a
branded caddy, as you allude.

> Cheers
> Amias

Best Regards,
Alex


>
> On 1 June 2015 at 17:03, jpff <jpff@codemist.co.uk> wrote:
>> I am contemplating extending my system with a new backup disk, and have been
>> looking mainly at 2Tb USB3.0 portable fisks, such as WD "Muy Passort",
>> Sasung M3, etc. Reading various reviews there seemsa 10% failure rate for
>> these devices in the first year, whic seems a lot. Various drives come with
>> Windows software which is useless. I would contemplate formatting as ext or
>> btrfs anyway. The USB powered feature is a defiite plus
>>
>> Does anyone have any experiences, good or bad?
>>
>> An alternative would be to use an Icybox enclosure and insert my own disk,
>> but that looks a more expersive solution
>>
>> ==John ff
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bristol mailing list
>> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 12:39:10 +0100
From: Peter Hemmings <peter@hemmings.eclipse.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Journalctl - Slow shutdown (Fedora)
Message-ID: <556D95DE.8020503@hemmings.eclipse.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed



On 01/06/15 09:57, Amias Channer wrote:
> Hello Peter,
>
> I didn't see NetworkManager i that list and the firewalld failure
> suggests it might have crashed and left
> something in a bad state.

Ok

>
> These kinds of bugs are usually temporary glitches in distro packaging
> and par for the course with distros adpoting systemd , I would imagine
> this will get fixed when you apply updates.

Well, this sort of problem does come and go!

I did use the "fedup" update method but did not remove all my extra
repos!! so there may have been the problem.

Fedora 21 is just out and I will do a clean upgrade next time (in a
couple of months to get stable).


>
> Another thing is SELinux , its a world of pain and unnecessary for
> most home users , i don't really use fedora much but if you enabled
> SELinux rather than fedora being configured with on by default then i
> would disable it again.

Yep, I know that is the general opinion but in my (limited) use, it has
never really been a problem.


>
> Cheers
> Amias
>
> On 31 May 2015 at 12:52, Peter Hemmings <peter@hemmings.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a Fedora 20 64 bit PC which is still slow to shutdown, and decided
>> to try to sort the problem!
>>
>> I have done a little reading and have used journalctl --since "10 mins ago"
>> to see what was happening after a prolonged shutdown with the message "a
>> stop job is running for user...."
>>
>> The last part of the output is attached, there are approximately 50 of
>> these texts which gradually get longer and the longest one is the one shown.
>>
>> It seems it cannot close "scope session" and there is a SElinux problem
>> also.
>>
>> This is all a bit beyond my knowledge and I would appreciate help in
>> isolating/removing the problem.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> --
>> Peter H
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bristol mailing list
>> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>
Regards

--
Peter H



------------------------------

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End of Bristol Digest, Vol 603, Issue 2
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