Kamis, 29 Desember 2016

Bristol Digest, Vol 675, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

1. Google cloud ssh keys (Martin Moore)
2. Google cloud ssh keys (Martin Moore)
3. FW: Google cloud ssh keys (Martin Moore)
4. shared object runtime problem (Martin Moore)
5. Re: FW: Google cloud ssh keys (Amias Channer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 13:41:24 +0000
From: Martin Moore <martinm@it-helps.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: [bristol] Google cloud ssh keys
Message-ID: <49114CA0-8AC6-4222-91D7-F2752B969FE0@it-helps.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I'm tinkering with Google cloud (Debian) but can't work out how to get my keys on. The instructions don't work for me (nothing happens and no error msg) and there doesn't seem to be anything else on google that helps.

It can't be difficult! What do I need to do?

>From OSx preferably, but can do from Debian.

Martin.

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 13:44:03 +0000
From: Martin Moore <martinm@it-helps.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: [bristol] Google cloud ssh keys
Message-ID: <A7090126-B5CB-4C04-81D8-C270FEE2DE73@it-helps.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I'm tinkering with Google cloud (Debian) but can't work out how to get my keys on. The instructions don't work for me (nothing happens and no error msg) and there doesn't seem to be anything else on google that helps.
 
It can't be difficult! What do I need to do?
>From OSx preferably, but can do it from Debian.
 
 
Martin.


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 13:53:12 +0000
From: Martin Moore <martinm@it-helps.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: [bristol] FW: Google cloud ssh keys
Message-ID: <3CBF0E22-95D4-4253-ADDD-827D7E468903@it-helps.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

OK, sorted it – just scp'd using pwd from the Google instance.

Martin.

On 28/12/2016, 13:44, "Martin Moore" <martinm@it-helps.co.uk> wrote:

I'm tinkering with Google cloud (Debian) but can't work out how to get my keys on. The instructions don't work for me (nothing happens and no error msg) and there doesn't seem to be anything else on google that helps.

It can't be difficult! What do I need to do?
From OSx preferably, but can do it from Debian.


Martin.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 21:18:48 +0000
From: Martin Moore <martinm@it-helps.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: [bristol] shared object runtime problem
Message-ID: <BB1D18EA-9FBF-4B2C-AA95-5B461D823F81@it-helps.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I'm progressing with my Google Cloud build, and have a postgres database up and running. However, I get the following error when I run some postgres functions using the so:

Dec 28 21:06:49 instance-1 kernel: [116302.224302] traps: postgres[4524] general protection ip:7fab60cc27be sp:7fffd0955500 error:0 in pgsphtrig.so[7fab60cc1000+7000]

pgsphtrig.so was compiled on the instance so should be fine. I added the –fPIC flags as requested by the compiler.

How can I debug this/find the problem?


Cheers,

Martin.


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 23:07:24 +0000
From: Amias Channer <me@amias.net>
To: Martin Moore <martinm@it-helps.co.uk>, Bristol and Bath Linux
User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] FW: Google cloud ssh keys
Message-ID:
<CAMgU7XUPzO=CvDVf369UQY2pbMi8MYwjXHC5m3JJ3KZ3FsJX5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

There is a a script in most linux distros callled ssh-copy-id which
automates that.
Its reliable in my experience.

Cheers
Amias

On 28 December 2016 at 13:53, Martin Moore via Bristol
<bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
> OK, sorted it – just scp'd using pwd from the Google instance.
>
>
>
> Martin.
>
> On 28/12/2016, 13:44, "Martin Moore" <martinm@it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I'm tinkering with Google cloud (Debian) but can't work out how to get my keys on. The instructions don't work for me (nothing happens and no error msg) and there doesn't seem to be anything else on google that helps.
>
> It can't be difficult! What do I need to do?
> From OSx preferably, but can do it from Debian.
>
>
> Martin.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Bristol mailing list
Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol

------------------------------

End of Bristol Digest, Vol 675, Issue 1
***************************************

Kamis, 22 Desember 2016

Bristol Digest, Vol 674, Issue 3

Send Bristol mailing list submissions to
bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Bristol digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD 2017.1
(Marton Balazs)
2. Re: Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD 2017.1 (Sebastian)
3. Re: Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD 2017.1 (Sebastian)
4. Re: Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD 2017.1
(Marton Balazs)
5. Re: Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD 2017.1 (Sebastian)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 19:29:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: Marton Balazs <balmar3@gmail.com>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD
2017.1
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1612221848160.15705@mipici>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII

Dear List,

I've been accepted here (thanks!) and quietly reading the list for the last few
months, but I thought it's time to come forward a bit now: I'd be happy to help
with the April event.

I'm no professional, I just have had Linux as a user for 15 years now. I
started with Suse+KDE back then, later searched for something simpler and
switched to Ubuntu with Gnome in 2003. I escaped the Gnome 3 era when it came
by turning to Xubuntu which I'm happily using ever since. At my amateur level
I'm organising my life mostly around the terminal, relying heavily on alpine,
vim (including vim-calendar for Google and an org-mode extension), rsync across
machines at home/in work and various simple bash scripts that make my life
enormously comfortable. :-)

English is not my first language and this becomes apparent to anyone after a
few moments of hearing me. But I've been in Bristol for more than 3 yeas now
and I think I can communicate well.

If you can use me I'd be happy to contribute to the Linux Presentation Day next
April.

Kind Regards,
Marton Balazs

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016, Sebastian via Bristol wrote:

> Hi
>
> As mentioned to this mailiing list before the plan is to have another two
> events next year in Bristol for Linux Presentation Day (
> http://linux-presentation-day.org http://linux-presentation-day.org.uk ).
> I have one confirmed other organiser so far, or so it seems, but not sure
> about anyone else, and if you would like to help organise or just on the
> day or mostly, etc, and in what kind of ways you would like to help with
> the event as well. Please get back to me properly on list or off list, as
> soon as possible, if you are interested. Then we may even have a
> organisers/helpers meeting next month before the LUG meeting even, with the
> event itself in late April probably on the 29th. Please read previous
> email from last week to this mailing list for more general event
> information. Our mailing list also gets archieved.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Sebastian
>
> P.S
>
> If the email to name is wrong, its since a email client issue.
>
>
> --
> Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 21:30:12 +0000
From: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
To: <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>, <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD
2017.1
Message-ID: <186cf155-8b80-4947-81e5-b9d182fd6c38@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On Thursday, 22 December 2016 19:29:20 GMT, Marton Balazs via Bristol
<bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
> Dear List,
>
> I've been accepted here (thanks!) and quietly reading the list
> for the last few
> months, but I thought it's time to come forward a bit now: I'd
> be happy to help
> with the April event.
>
> I'm no professional, I just have had Linux as a user for 15 years now. I
> started with Suse+KDE back then, later searched for something simpler and
> switched to Ubuntu with Gnome in 2003. I escaped the Gnome 3
> era when it came
> by turning to Xubuntu which I'm happily using ever since. At my
> amateur level
> I'm organising my life mostly around the terminal, relying
> heavily on alpine,
> vim (including vim-calendar for Google and an org-mode
> extension), rsync across
> machines at home/in work and various simple bash scripts that make my life
> enormously comfortable. :-)

Ok it seems that you are a bit more than just reasoanbly experienced with
Desktop Linux, and have actualy used it for a bit longer than me as well.
Which distro/s do you currently run at home and work, Xubuntu? What's your
Linux using job as well?
>
> English is not my first language and this becomes apparent to anyone after a
> few moments of hearing me.

Thats absoutly fine, and where are you from, and whats your first language?

But I've been in Bristol for more than 3 yeas now

Ok why the move to Bristol, work?

> and I think I can communicate well.
>
> If you can use me I'd be happy to contribute to the Linux
> Presentation Day next
> April.

Yes you will/would be of use, and thank you for volunteering :). By the way
how did you find out about the LUG in the first place and when?

I assume you haven't been to any of the LUG meetings yet, but I hope to
meet at the LUG meeting next month, next year, in Jan, and maybe at a event
organisers/helpers meeting next month before the LUG meeting as well.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Marton Balazs
>
>
>
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2016, Sebastian via Bristol wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> As mentioned to this mailiing list before the plan is to have another two
>> events next year in Bristol for Linux Presentation Day (
>> http://linux-presentation-day.org http://linux-presentation-day.org.uk ).
>> I have one confirmed other organiser so far, or so it seems, but not sure
>> about anyone else, and if you would like to help organise or just on the
>> day or mostly, etc, and in what kind of ways you would like to help with
>> the event as well. Please get back to me properly on list or
>> off list, as
>> soon as possible, if you are interested. Then we may even have a
>> organisers/helpers meeting next month before the LUG meeting
>> even, with the
>> event itself in late April probably on the 29th. Please read previous
>> email from last week to this mailing list for more general event
>> information. Our mailing list also gets archieved.
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Sebastian
>>
>> P.S
>>
>> If the email to name is wrong, its since a email client issue.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device
>


--
Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 21:38:21 +0000
From: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
To: <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>, <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD
2017.1
Message-ID: <65a8942e-d752-4104-b357-fa79fc046052@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed


I lost the original email message that was going to send: Asking you
properly if you wanted to help with organising of the event, and then being
at the event as an organiser as well, or just on the day as a on the day
helper, didn't get into my new email response.

On Thursday, 22 December 2016 21:30:12 GMT, Sebastian
<sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thursday, 22 December 2016 19:29:20 GMT, Marton Balazs via Bristol
> <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I've been accepted here (thanks!) and quietly reading the list
>> for the last few
>> months, but I thought it's time to come forward a bit now: I'd
>> be happy to help
>> with the April event.
>>
>> I'm no professional, I just have had Linux as a user for 15 years now. I
>> started with Suse+KDE back then, later searched for something simpler and
>> switched to Ubuntu with Gnome in 2003. I escaped the Gnome 3
>> era when it came
>> by turning to Xubuntu which I'm happily using ever since. At my
>> amateur level
>> I'm organising my life mostly around the terminal, relying
>> heavily on alpine,
>> vim (including vim-calendar for Google and an org-mode
>> extension), rsync across
>> machines at home/in work and various simple bash scripts that
>> make my life
>> enormously comfortable. :-)
>
> Ok it seems that you are a bit more than just reasoanbly experienced with
> Desktop Linux, and have actualy used it for a bit longer than me as well.
> Which distro/s do you currently run at home and work, Xubuntu?
> What's your
> Linux using job as well?
>>
>> English is not my first language and this becomes apparent to
>> anyone after a
>> few moments of hearing me.
>
> Thats absoutly fine, and where are you from, and whats your first language?
>
> But I've been in Bristol for more than 3 yeas now
>
> Ok why the move to Bristol, work?
>
>> and I think I can communicate well.
>>
>> If you can use me I'd be happy to contribute to the Linux
>> Presentation Day next
>> April.
>
> Yes you will/would be of use, and thank you for volunteering
> :). By the way
> how did you find out about the LUG in the first place and when?
>
> I assume you haven't been to any of the LUG meetings yet, but I hope to
> meet at the LUG meeting next month, next year, in Jan, and
> maybe at a event
> organisers/helpers meeting next month before the LUG meeting as well.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Marton Balazs
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2016, Sebastian via Bristol wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> As mentioned to this mailiing list before the plan is to have
>>> another two
>>> events next year in Bristol for Linux Presentation Day (
>>> http://linux-presentation-day.org
>>> http://linux-presentation-day.org.uk ).
>>> I have one confirmed other organiser so far, or so it seems,
>>> but not sure
>>> about anyone else, and if you would like to help organise or
>>> just on the
>>> day or mostly, etc, and in what kind of ways you would like
>>> to help with
>>> the event as well. Please get back to me properly on list or
>>> off list, as
>>> soon as possible, if you are interested. Then we may even have a
>>> organisers/helpers meeting next month before the LUG meeting
>>> even, with the
>>> event itself in late April probably on the 29th. Please read previous
>>> email from last week to this mailing list for more general event
>>> information. Our mailing list also gets archieved.
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Sebastian
>>>
>>> P.S
>>>
>>> If the email to name is wrong, its since a email client issue.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device
>>
>
>

--
Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 21:53:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: Marton Balazs <balmar3@gmail.com>
To: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>, Bristol and Bath Linux User
Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD
2017.1
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1612222142590.13750@miasrock>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 22 Dec 2016, Sebastian via Bristol wrote:

> Ok it seems that you are a bit more than just reasoanbly experienced with
> Desktop Linux, and have actualy used it for a bit longer than me as well.
> Which distro/s do you currently run at home and work, Xubuntu?

Xubuntu, both home and work. (Except for a Sheevaplug at home which runs
Debian.)

> What's your Linux using job as well?

I'm at the University. Luckily they are happy with some of us using Linux
there.

>> English is not my first language and this becomes apparent to anyone after
> a
>> few moments of hearing me.
>
> Thats absoutly fine, and where are you from, and whats your first language?

Hungary, Hungarian.

> But I've been in Bristol for more than 3 yeas now
>
> Ok why the move to Bristol, work?

Yes, work.

>> and I think I can communicate well.
>>
>> If you can use me I'd be happy to contribute to the Linux
>> Presentation Day next
>> April.
>
> Yes you will/would be of use, and thank you for volunteering :).

Ok, let me know how. I'll be happy with whichever role you assign to me, maybe
I should start with something simple. :-) I'll try to make it to the next
meeting to discuss.

> By the way how did you find out about the LUG in the first place and when?

I think it was before the previous Presentation Day. The ad came through a
university mailing list.

> I assume you haven't been to any of the LUG meetings yet, but I hope to
> meet at the LUG meeting next month, next year, in Jan, and maybe at a event
> organisers/helpers meeting next month before the LUG meeting as well.

I'll try.

Thanks,
Marton

>> Kind Regards,
>> Marton Balazs

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 22:41:27 +0000
From: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
To: Marton Balazs <balmar3@gmail.com>
Cc: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>,
sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com
Subject: Re: [bristol] Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD
2017.1
Message-ID: <a6a3dd4a-9718-4187-97b9-e8e9168a6241@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On Thursday, 22 December 2016 21:53:23 GMT, Marton Balazs
<balmar3@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2016, Sebastian via Bristol wrote:
>
>> Ok it seems that you are a bit more than just reasoanbly
>> experienced with
>> Desktop Linux, and have actualy used it for a bit longer than
>> me as well.
>> Which distro/s do you currently run at home and work, Xubuntu?
>
> Xubuntu, both home and work. (Except for a Sheevaplug at home which runs
> Debian.)
>
>> What's your Linux using job as well?
>
> I'm at the University. Luckily they are happy with some of us using Linux
> there.
>
Oh right univeristy of Bristol I guess, as a lectuerer?

>>> English is not my first language and this becomes apparent to
>>> anyone after
>> a
>>> few moments of hearing me.
>>
>> Thats absoutly fine, and where are you from, and whats your
>> first language?
>
> Hungary, Hungarian.
>
>> But I've been in Bristol for more than 3 yeas now
>>
>> Ok why the move to Bristol, work?
>
> Yes, work.
>
>>> and I think I can communicate well.
>>>
>>> If you can use me I'd be happy to contribute to the Linux
>>> Presentation Day next
>>> April.
>>
>> Yes you will/would be of use, and thank you for volunteering :).
>
> Ok, let me know how. I'll be happy with whichever role you
> assign to me, maybe
> I should start with something simple. :-) I'll try to make it to the next
> meeting to discuss.

It will be mostly demoing, plus got certain other tasks that should be done
as well, that aren't technical.
>
>> By the way how did you find out about the LUG in the first
>> place and when?
>
> I think it was before the previous Presentation Day. The ad came through a
> university mailing list.

Probably something that was sent from someone who helped organise last
time.
>
>> I assume you haven't been to any of the LUG meetings yet, but I hope to
>> meet at the LUG meeting next month, next year, in Jan, and
>> maybe at a event
>> organisers/helpers meeting next month before the LUG meeting as well.
>
> I'll try.

Ok hope to meet you next month, next year, thanks again.
>
> Thanks,
> Marton
>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Marton Balazs
>


--
Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Bristol mailing list
Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol

------------------------------

End of Bristol Digest, Vol 674, Issue 3
***************************************

Bristol Digest, Vol 674, Issue 2

Send Bristol mailing list submissions to
bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
bristol-request@mailman.lug.org.uk

You can reach the person managing the list at
bristol-owner@mailman.lug.org.uk

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Bristol digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: FOSDEM 2017 (David Smith)
2. Re: FOSDEM 2017 (Sebastian)
3. Re: Fwd: Last LUG Meeting of 2016 this Saturday! Tommorow!
(Sebastian)
4. Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD 2017.1 (Sebastian)
5. Re: FOSDEM 2017 (David Smith)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 14:23:14 +0000
From: David Smith <David.Smith@imgtec.com>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] FOSDEM 2017
Message-ID:
<15A9D35B5490FC49AC0524AE3A085F082FCB57B5@HHMAIL01.hh.imgtec.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bristol [mailto:bristol-bounces@mailman.lug.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> Sebastian via Bristol
>
> The Eurostar is cheaper, and not the first time people have been like, from
> the UK, your going to Brussels why not on the Eurostar. However here's how
> I see it, we are down here in this area, so to go by Eurostar first you got to
> get to London, well actually past London, Dover? That's over two hours
> travelling already! With a plane can leave at a nicer time for a later flight, and
> waiting around a bit in less busy airports such as Bristol, doesn't bother me at
> all, usually better not on own though.

Not Dover - Bristol Temple Meads/Parkway to Paddington, Paddington to St Pancras on the tube (Circle/Hammersmith&City), St Pancras to Brussels on Eurostar.

My experience was that, to Grenoble, the journey time was similar once you factor in the fact that I'm on completely the wrong side of Bristol for the airport so it's a minimum 1/2 hr journey time (compared to a quick hop to Parkway station), the extra time in the airports (you don't have to check in an hour or more before departure for a train), waiting at baggage reclaim, sorting out a hire car at the other end, then 2-3 hours of driving to get from Geneva to Grenoble (no direct flights outside of ski season). Both of them worked out at about 8 hours.

> Flying from Brussels from down here only takes about an hour and ten
> minutes, only about 45 minutes from Heathrow as well (done that before as
> well), way quicker to fly. With a train may have to wait around in train
> stations as well, or for trains that are delayed, etc. Plus it's eaiser
> to travel with an extra bag via planes, since that's one of the first things that
> is done, getting rid of that extra bag :).

I'd go the other way around - you don't have the 100 ml restrictions for hand baggage, plus no waiting at baggage reclaim at the other end - just walk out with all your stuff.

Well, it was just a suggestion.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 22:54:13 +0000
From: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
To: <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>, <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [bristol] FOSDEM 2017
Message-ID: <7c72ffcc-4c7d-46e0-9ce9-2c074414bb17@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On Wednesday, 21 December 2016 14:23:14 GMT, David Smith via Bristol
<bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bristol [mailto:bristol-bounces@mailman.lug.org.uk] On Behalf Of
>> Sebastian via Bristol
>>
>> The Eurostar is cheaper, and not the first time people have
>> been like, from
>> the UK, your going to Brussels why not on the Eurostar.
>> However here's how
>> I see it, we are down here in this area, so to go by Eurostar
>> first you got to
>> get to London, well actually past London, Dover? That's over two hours
>> travelling already! With a plane can leave at a nicer time
>> for a later flight, and
>> waiting around a bit in less busy airports such as Bristol,
>> doesn't bother me at
>> all, usually better not on own though.
>
> Not Dover - Bristol Temple Meads/Parkway to Paddington,
> Paddington to St Pancras on the tube (Circle/Hammersmith&City),
> St Pancras to Brussels on Eurostar.

Oh ok haven't made that journey, and many years ago since going in a car
with my family on the Eurostar to France. Or from Dover over to France or
Belgium via the ferrys even.

>
> My experience was that, to Grenoble, the journey time was
> similar once you factor in the fact that I'm on completely the
> wrong side of Bristol for the airport so it's a minimum 1/2 hr
> journey time (compared to a quick hop to Parkway station),

I am about an hour maybe about 45 minutes depending on traffic, from that
air port, via car or taxi, so not that near as well. Bristol Parkway is
about half an hour in a car/taxi or on a particular bus that doesn't go
that often, so not near as well in a way.

the
> extra time in the airports (you don't have to check in an hour
> or more before departure for a train), waiting at baggage
> reclaim,

No, but trains can get delayed or missed, resulting in having to wait
longer at the train station

sorting out a hire car at the other end, then 2-3 hours
> of driving to get from Geneva to Grenoble (no direct flights
> outside of ski season).
If going to Brussels or Geneva or some where like that and via car, then
surely its better really to go all the way via car, and the Eurostar or
ferryr?
Both of them worked out at about 8
> hours.
>
>> Flying from Brussels from down here only takes about an hour and ten
>> minutes, only about 45 minutes from Heathrow as well (done
>> that before as
>> well), way quicker to fly. With a train may have to wait
>> around in train
>> stations as well, or for trains that are delayed, etc. Plus it's eaiser
>> to travel with an extra bag via planes, since that's one of
>> the first things that
>> is done, getting rid of that extra bag :).
>
> I'd go the other way around - you don't have the 100 ml
> restrictions for hand baggage, plus no waiting at baggage
> reclaim at the other end - just walk out with all your stuff.
>
> Well, it was just a suggestion.

That's ok to suggest, and if this email comes up with the wrong to name,
it's since a email client issue.


--
Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 23:24:57 +0000
From: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
To: <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>, <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Fwd: Last LUG Meeting of 2016 this Saturday!
Tommorow!
Message-ID: <f39f62ad-40f2-4a0d-bbc2-0f41df71add6@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On Saturday, 17 December 2016 18:16:47 GMT, peternsomerset--- via Bristol
<bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
>
> Yes I was there!
> A small but intelligent group turned up late!

Yeah something like that, but not quite, only four of us were there
including us two, hopefully quite a few more people next month :).

> Happy Christmas☺
> --
> Sent from myMail for Android Saturday, 17 December 2016,
> 02:58pm +00:00 from Samir Benmendil via Bristol
> bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk :
>
>>
>>
>>Anyone there already? Couldn't find anyone.
>>
>> On Friday, 16 December 2016, Sebastian via Bristol <
>> bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk > wrote:
>>>Hi
>>>
>>> WOW what a great turn out, WOW, WOW, indeed, what a great
>>> turn out, for last months November LUG meeting. I remember
>>> emailing here on the list about how it would be basically good
>>> to have a 10 people turn out, and we had like 11, including
>>> ourselves people who turned up Three from the event the
>>> previous month it seems as well, well ok two don't really
>>> count I guess then since were already on the mailing list
>>> apparnatly, but still one guy did come in from the event.
>>> That was good, after running the event and the type of event
>>> it was, and general turn out it ended up getting, and of what
>>> kind of people. The big question would be though, can we
>>> have a about 10 people turn out at the LUG meeting tommorow as
>>> well or not? 10 people turn out is rather impressive, since
>>> a lot of people don't come to the meetings anymore or rather
>>> rarely, that are still on this list. Its not just, because
>>> quite a few people have moved away from the general, big area
>>> of, Bristol, Bath, and sourunding areas. Yes our LUG may be
>>> mostly social chat now for the meetings, rather than helping
>>> people with basic to advanced support issues, but thats
>>> since Desktop Linux is generally much easier to use now for
>>> most distros, than it used to be, and its been like that for
>>> many years now.. I been to the LUG meetings since I think it
>>> was April 2012 I think last month was the biggest turn out
>>> of people that have ever had it in that time, whilst I have
>>> been there, or if not for quite a while.
>>> I would like to meet some of the people who used to come to
>>> the LUG meetings a lot this Saturday ideally, but I think to
>>> keep the in person side of this LUG nicely alive, with good
>>> turn outs of people for most LUG meetings etc, its good now to
>>> do things at times that will hopefuly bring new people into
>>> them, such as events. Next year 2017 should have three events
>>> it seems, two Linux Presentaiton Day events, and one bigger
>>> event organised by someone else as well it seems, with public
>>> speaking even. Which would be quite impressive right?
>>>
>>> Tommorow is the Christmas meeting at the Knight's Templar
>>> hence a week earlier than usual as well, we should be sitting
>>> at the table in the left hand side corner by the plugs at the
>>> back of the pub on the lower level as usuaul, or near there
>>> instead if someone else not us is already there. The first
>>> one of us will probably arrive at about 2pm, but for anyone
>>> who may be new that might be coming tommorow I would suggest
>>> not turning up untill 2:30pm by the earliest, or may be there
>>> on own. As usaul I hope to meet new people at the LUG
>>> meeting, and I probably won't be there untill about 3pm
>>> myself, and then laving late about 6pm/7pm. What about other
>>> people who are intending on coming tommorow? We can eat
>>> Christmas dinner there tommorow as well, already had some last
>>> month, but will again ;). Also I been wondering about Samir
>>> and what plan he actusally booked for FOSDEM, and if our newer
>>> person from the event, who is hopefuly on this list now, is
>>> intending on coming still or not as well.
>>>
>>> Anyone got some USB's to bring along tommorow? Yes Linux
>>> Live USB's! Ideally of more fun distros to so not just common
>>> things like Fedora and OpenSUSE, and Ubuntu 16.10, but yes
>>> please someone bring those along to. Oh and the USB's I am
>>> after must have support for UEFI. I guess the USB's don't
>>> have to be Linux though. You see I have bought a interesting
>>> mini PC, that was going to crowd fund earlier this the year,
>>> but didn't reallly have the spare money then. The pre
>>> installed Windows 10 didn't last that long on there at all,
>>> more details about that at the LUG meeting tommorow. I had a
>>> USB stick with Ubuntu 16.04 on it, so put that on. Ubuntu
>>> 16.04 mostly works on it, altough with some hardware issues,
>>> because of how the device was only really intended to be made
>>> for Windows 10, but considering that and how much still just
>>> works, that's quite good really. For a few things can
>>> probably fix onself though. More details tommorow at the LUG
>>> meeting.
>>>
>>>2016 Regards
>>>
>>>Sebastian
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Bristol mailing list
>>>Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
>>>https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>>
>>--
>>Samir Benmendil
>>
>> "[The World Wide Web is] the only thing I know of whose
>> shortened form — www — takes three times longer to say than
>> what it's short for." Douglas Adams
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Bristol mailing list
>>Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
>>https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol


--
Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 23:55:41 +0000
From: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
To: <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>, <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
Subject: [bristol] Event Organisers and Helpers Wanted for LPD 2017.1
Message-ID: <c9127f59-8eaf-4a8e-8e46-9ce9b0453af7@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Hi

As mentioned to this mailiing list before the plan is to have another two
events next year in Bristol for Linux Presentation Day (
http://linux-presentation-day.org http://linux-presentation-day.org.uk ).
I have one confirmed other organiser so far, or so it seems, but not sure
about anyone else, and if you would like to help organise or just on the
day or mostly, etc, and in what kind of ways you would like to help with
the event as well. Please get back to me properly on list or off list, as
soon as possible, if you are interested. Then we may even have a
organisers/helpers meeting next month before the LUG meeting even, with the
event itself in late April probably on the 29th. Please read previous
email from last week to this mailing list for more general event
information. Our mailing list also gets archieved.

Best Regards

Sebastian

P.S

If the email to name is wrong, its since a email client issue.


--
Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 09:52:51 +0000
From: David Smith <David.Smith@imgtec.com>
To: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>, Bristol and Bath Linux User
Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] FOSDEM 2017
Message-ID:
<15A9D35B5490FC49AC0524AE3A085F082FCB58E9@HHMAIL01.hh.imgtec.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bristol [mailto:bristol-bounces@mailman.lug.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> Sebastian via Bristol
> If going to Brussels or Geneva or some where like that and via car, then
> surely its better really to go all the way via car, and the Eurostar or ferryr?

No, unless you're taking a car-load of stuff with you. There's no way a car can compete with a 300 kph TGV...

Plus, if you drive all the way you end up knackered at the end, and there's the safety aspects to consider.

And, given that I was going on business, I'd like to see my boss' face when I put in a mileage expenses claim for 1500 miles at 45p/mile... :)

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Bristol mailing list
Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol

------------------------------

End of Bristol Digest, Vol 674, Issue 2
***************************************

Rabu, 21 Desember 2016

Bristol Digest, Vol 674, Issue 1

Send Bristol mailing list submissions to
bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Bristol digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: FOSDEM 2017 (Richard Wall)
2. Re: FOSDEM 2017 (David Smith)
3. Re: FOSDEM 2017 (Richard Wall)
4. Re: FOSDEM 2017 (Sebastian)
5. Re: FOSDEM 2017 (Richard Wall)
6. Re: FOSDEM 2017 (Sebastian)
7. Re: FOSDEM 2017 (Sebastian)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 12:17:10 +0000
From: Richard Wall <richard@the-moon.net>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Cc: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>, Samir Benmendil <me@rmz.io>
Subject: Re: [bristol] FOSDEM 2017
Message-ID:
<CABefbUo6M_JiUur+Aj9QSYwjjcxv6VU9zAgcJOb9kHsvt-ooUw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 2 December 2016 at 20:02, Sebastian via Bristol
<bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
...
> Someone new from Octobers event who turned up at the last LUG
> meeting, it seems is interested in gong to Brussels for FODEM as well, plus
> possibly one more guy it seems. I intend to stay untill the Monday evening,
> so the day after the event, and would then like to go back with someone or
> more ideally as well.

Hey Sebastian and Samir,

Sorry I didn't reply sooner.

I'm about to book the following flights:

Bristol (BRS)
Thu 2 February, 2017, 06:05
Brussels (BRU)
Thu 2 February, 2017, 08:20
Brussels Airlines
SN2060

Brussels (BRU)
Mon 6 February, 2017, 09:50
Bristol (BRS)
Mon 6 February, 2017, 10:05
Brussels Airlines
SN2055

Just wanted to check whether you two are still going on Thursday and
returning on Monday.

Happy to share a hotel room if that suits either of you otherwise I'll
book something separately.

-RichardW - The new guy with a Fedora Thinkpad :-)

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 12:29:54 +0000
From: David Smith <David.Smith@imgtec.com>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] FOSDEM 2017
Message-ID:
<15A9D35B5490FC49AC0524AE3A085F082FCB576F@HHMAIL01.hh.imgtec.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bristol [mailto:bristol-bounces@mailman.lug.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> Richard Wall via Bristol
> I'm about to book the following flights:
>
> Bristol (BRS)
> Thu 2 February, 2017, 06:05
> Brussels (BRU)
> Thu 2 February, 2017, 08:20
> Brussels Airlines
> SN2060
>
> Brussels (BRU)
> Mon 6 February, 2017, 09:50
> Bristol (BRS)
> Mon 6 February, 2017, 10:05
> Brussels Airlines
> SN2055

Just out of interest...

Did you look at going on Eurostar? I often find it's significantly cheaper than flying. I used to go out to Grenoble by train and there wasn't a huge difference in journey time (once you consider getting to/from the airport at both ends and the waiting time in the airports). You can buy a through-ticket from any UK station nowadays.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 12:48:49 +0000
From: Richard Wall <richard@the-moon.net>
To: David Smith <David.Smith@imgtec.com>, Bristol and Bath Linux User
Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] FOSDEM 2017
Message-ID:
<CABefbUqZPqg6tK5v2u9Nkq5OEE=gyKz_jFdBMO76dor6N_Bkgg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 21 December 2016 at 12:29, David Smith via Bristol
<bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
> Just out of interest...
> Did you look at going on Eurostar? I often find it's significantly cheaper than flying. I used to go out to Grenoble by train and there wasn't a huge difference in journey time (once you consider getting to/from the airport at both ends and the waiting time in the airports). You can buy a through-ticket from any UK station nowadays.


Huh, I hadn't considered it but you're right it's about £30 cheaper
once you factor in the Bristol airport bus.
But it also takes 5+h vs ~2h by bus+plane.
And the flight is direct, so no risk of missed connections etc.

I'll think about it.

-RichardW.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 13:21:40 +0000
From: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
To: Richard Wall <richard@the-moon.net>, <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
Cc: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>,
Samir Benmendil <me@rmz.io>
Subject: Re: [bristol] FOSDEM 2017
Message-ID: <79ef4c0c-75e2-43cd-b576-50911de366bc@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Hi

Just seen this, and not sure who you are. If your the guy who came to the
event in October and the LUG in November, ok I got an idea. If someone else
I am not sure.

Hopefully you haven't booked anything yet, Samir and me are flying out on
the Thursday on the 17:30pm 5:30pm flight. He will be staying on the
continent for longer, to visit family etc, but I am going back on the 21:20
9:20pm (or about), flight on the Monday., the last flight back of the day
As for hotel, I'll probably stay where I have stayed the last five years,
plus they do a paid extra for air port transfer, where they wait at the
air port, and take back as well. Want to join me in the same hotel?
However with own rooms. Samir will be staying somewere else.

Thought there may have been a flight times issue a bit possibly, with three
there and back on those days.

Regards

Sebastian

On Wednesday, 21 December 2016 12:17:10 GMT, Richard Wall
<richard@the-moon.net> wrote:
> On 2 December 2016 at 20:02, Sebastian via Bristol
> <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
> ...
>> Someone new from Octobers event who turned up at the last LUG
>> meeting, it seems is interested in gong to Brussels for FODEM
>> as well, plus
>> possibly one more guy it seems. I intend to stay untill the
>> Monday evening,
>> so the day after the event, and would then like to go back
>> with someone or
>> more ideally as well.
>
> Hey Sebastian and Samir,
>
> Sorry I didn't reply sooner.
>
> I'm about to book the following flights:
>
> Bristol (BRS)
> Thu 2 February, 2017, 06:05
> Brussels (BRU)
> Thu 2 February, 2017, 08:20
> Brussels Airlines
> SN2060
>
> Brussels (BRU)
> Mon 6 February, 2017, 09:50
> Bristol (BRS)
> Mon 6 February, 2017, 10:05
> Brussels Airlines
> SN2055
>
> Just wanted to check whether you two are still going on Thursday and
> returning on Monday.
>
> Happy to share a hotel room if that suits either of you otherwise I'll
> book something separately.
>
> -RichardW - The new guy with a Fedora Thinkpad :-)
>


--
Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 13:31:01 +0000
From: Richard Wall <richard@the-moon.net>
To: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
Cc: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>,
Samir Benmendil <me@rmz.io>
Subject: Re: [bristol] FOSDEM 2017
Message-ID:
<CABefbUotNT5fOvjZJR77DUbmow78Ca7=ihR32ih=Bw2OG13Zfw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 21 December 2016 at 13:21, Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com> wrote:
> Just seen this, and not sure who you are. If your the guy who came to the
> event in October and the LUG in November, ok I got an idea. If someone else
> I am not sure.

Yep, that's me :-)

> Hopefully you haven't booked anything yet, Samir and me are flying out on
> the Thursday on the 17:30pm 5:30pm flight.

Ok. I don't think there are any remaining cheap seats at that time so
I'll have to meet up with you there.

Looking forward to it though!

-RichardW.

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 13:35:08 +0000
From: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
To: <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>, <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>,
<sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [bristol] FOSDEM 2017
Message-ID: <311e23f7-97cf-499e-a687-6fcba1c17587@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

HI

The Eurostar is cheaper, and not the first time people have been like, from
the UK, your going to Brussels why not on the Eurostar. However here's how
I see it, we are down here in this area, so to go by Eurostar first you
got to get to London, well actually past London, Dover? That's over two
hours travelling already! With a plane can leave at a nicer time for a
later flight, and waiting around a bit in less busy airports such as
Bristol, doesn't bother me at all, usually better not on own though.
Flying from Brussels from down here only takes about an hour and ten
minutes, only about 45 minutes from Heathrow as well (done that before as
well), way quicker to fly. With a train may have to wait around in train
stations as well, or for trains that are delayed, etc. Plus it's eaiser
to travel with an extra bag via planes, since that's one of the first
things that is done, getting rid of that extra bag :).

Regards

Sebastian

On Wednesday, 21 December 2016 12:48:49 GMT, Richard Wall via Bristol
<bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
> On 21 December 2016 at 12:29, David Smith via Bristol
> <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
>> Just out of interest...
>> Did you look at going on Eurostar? I often find it's
>> significantly cheaper than flying. I used to go out to
>> Grenoble by train and there wasn't a huge difference in journey
>> time (once you consider getting to/from the airport at both
>> ends and the waiting time in the airports). You can buy a
>> through-ticket from any UK station nowadays.
>
>
> Huh, I hadn't considered it but you're right it's about £30 cheaper
> once you factor in the Bristol airport bus.
> But it also takes 5+h vs ~2h by bus+plane.
> And the flight is direct, so no risk of missed connections etc.
>
> I'll think about it.
>
> -RichardW.
>


--
Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 13:45:43 +0000
From: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
To: Richard Wall <richard@the-moon.net>, <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>
Cc: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>,
Samir Benmendil <me@rmz.io>
Subject: Re: [bristol] FOSDEM 2017
Message-ID: <cdfbad77-8a2a-40bb-8d68-30c9d891d15f@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Yes planes aren't that cheap now and I didn't book early enough as well, a
return will be like 268 pounds now. Can still stay in the same hotel if
you want though? Also you going to stay tilll Monday evening? You could
meet us there on Thursday evening if going a bit earlier I expect. It's
good being there early about 5 6pm on the Friday if going for the beer
event as well, since it gets majorly packed inside and outside up to the
road.

On Wednesday, 21 December 2016 13:31:01 GMT, Richard Wall
<richard@the-moon.net> wrote:
> On 21 December 2016 at 13:21, Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com> wrote:
>> Just seen this, and not sure who you are. If your the guy who came to the
>> event in October and the LUG in November, ok I got an idea. If
>> someone else
>> I am not sure.
>
> Yep, that's me :-)
>
>> Hopefully you haven't booked anything yet, Samir and me are flying out on
>> the Thursday on the 17:30pm 5:30pm flight.
>
> Ok. I don't think there are any remaining cheap seats at that time so
> I'll have to meet up with you there.
>
> Looking forward to it though!
>
> -RichardW.
>


--
Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Bristol mailing list
Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol

------------------------------

End of Bristol Digest, Vol 674, Issue 1
***************************************

Minggu, 18 Desember 2016

Bristol Digest, Vol 673, Issue 13

Send Bristol mailing list submissions to
bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Bristol digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: Postgres optimised h/w (Jonathan Stone)
2. Re: Fwd: Last LUG Meeting of 2016 this Saturday! Tommorow!
(peternsomerset@virginmedia.com)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 17:36:05 +0000
From: Jonathan Stone <lug@jonstone.org.uk>
To: Martin Moore via Bristol <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Postgres optimised h/w
Message-ID: <20161217173605.GB972@discordia.qaotiq.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 02:07:19PM +0000, Martin Moore via Bristol wrote:
> On 17/12/2016, 13:49, "Bristol on behalf of Jonathan Stone via Bristol" <bristol-bounces@mailman.lug.org.uk on behalf of bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
> If the goal is to reduce the users' response times, then first you
> should to get a feel for where the time is being spent today. Is
> most of the time being spent waiting on physical IO, on CPU scanning
> through the data or on the network throughput/latency getting the
> queries and results to and from the database server?
>
>
> It???s the actual query ??? lots of table scans.

I would want to know what resources were used on the database server
in order to actually perform those table scans and the rest of the
query processing. When it comes to performance, I like to avoid
making assumptions.

The sort of metrics I would look at are, for a single typical execution
of this query:
1. how much CPU time is used on the database server
2. how many logical IOs are required
3. how many physical IOs are issued
4. how large those IOs are
5. how long the database waited for the IOs to complete

You may find the bottleneck moves during the query processing, e.g.
start off IO bound whilst performing a full table scan and then become
CPU bound while performing hash joins or sort operations.

In the Oracle world this all can be collected together in a SQL
monitoring report with a pretty bow on top (for a price). However
I'm not familiar with what is available in Postgres.

Jonathan


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 21:16:47 +0300
From: peternsomerset@virginmedia.com
To: Samir Benmendil <me@rmz.io>, Bristol and Bath Linux User Group
<bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Fwd: Last LUG Meeting of 2016 this Saturday!
Tommorow!
Message-ID: <1481998607.990817888@f22.my.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"


Yes I was there!
A small but intelligent group turned up late!
Happy Christmas☺
--
Sent from myMail for Android Saturday, 17 December 2016, 02:58pm +00:00 from Samir Benmendil via Bristol bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk :

>
>
>Anyone there already? Couldn't find anyone. 
>
>On Friday, 16 December 2016, Sebastian via Bristol < bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk > wrote:
>>Hi
>>
>>WOW what a great turn out,  WOW, WOW, indeed, what a great turn out, for last months November LUG meeting.  I remember emailing here on the list about how it would be basically good to have a 10 people turn out, and we had like 11, including ourselves people who turned up  Three from the event the previous month it seems as well, well ok two don't really count I guess then since were already on the mailing list apparnatly,  but still one guy did come in from the event. That was good, after running the event and the type of event it was, and general  turn out it ended up getting, and of what kind of people.   The big question would be though, can we have a about 10 people turn out at the LUG meeting tommorow as well or not?  10 people turn out is rather impressive,  since a lot of people don't come to the meetings anymore or rather rarely, that are still on this list. Its not just, because quite a few people have moved away from the general, big area of, Bristol, Bath, and sourunding  areas.  Yes our LUG may be mostly social chat now for the meetings, rather than helping people with basic to advanced support issues,  but thats since  Desktop Linux is generally much easier to use now for most distros, than it used to be,  and its been like that for many years now..  I been to the LUG meetings since I think it was April 2012  I think  last month was the biggest turn out of people that have ever had it in that time, whilst I have been there,  or if not for quite a while. 
>>I would like to meet some of the people who used to come to the LUG meetings a lot this Saturday ideally,  but I think to keep the in person side of this LUG nicely alive, with good turn outs of people for most LUG meetings etc, its good now to do things at times that will hopefuly bring new people into them, such as events.  Next year 2017 should have three events it seems, two Linux Presentaiton Day events, and one bigger event organised by someone else as well it seems, with public speaking even.  Which would be quite impressive right?
>>
>>Tommorow is the Christmas meeting at the Knight's Templar hence a week earlier  than usual as well, we should be sitting at the table in the left hand side corner by the plugs at the back of the pub on the lower level as usuaul, or near there instead if someone else not us is already there.  The first one of us will probably arrive at about 2pm, but for anyone who may be new that might be coming tommorow I would suggest not turning up untill 2:30pm by the earliest, or may be there on  own. As usaul I hope to meet new people at the LUG meeting, and I  probably won't be there untill about 3pm myself, and then laving late about 6pm/7pm.  What about other people who are intending on coming tommorow?  We can eat Christmas dinner there tommorow as well, already had some last month, but will again ;).  Also I been wondering about Samir and what plan he actusally booked for FOSDEM, and if our newer person from the event, who is hopefuly on this list now, is intending on coming still or not as well.
>>
>>Anyone got some USB's to bring along tommorow?  Yes Linux Live USB's!  Ideally of more fun distros to so not just common things like Fedora and OpenSUSE, and Ubuntu 16.10,  but yes please someone bring those along to.  Oh and the USB's I am after must have support for UEFI.  I guess the USB's don't have to be Linux though.  You see I have bought a interesting mini PC, that was going to crowd fund earlier this the year, but didn't reallly have the spare money then.  The pre installed Windows 10 didn't last that long  on there at all, more details about that at  the LUG meeting tommorow.  I had a USB stick with Ubuntu 16.04 on it, so put that on. Ubuntu 16.04 mostly works on it, altough with some hardware issues, because of how the device was only really intended to be made for Windows 10, but considering that and how much still just works, that's quite good really.  For a few things can probably fix onself though. More details tommorow at the LUG meeting.
>>
>>2016 Regards
>>
>>Sebastian
>>
>>
>>--
>>Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Bristol mailing list
>>Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
>>https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>
>--
>Samir Benmendil
>
>"[The World Wide Web is] the only thing I know of whose shortened form — www — takes three times longer to say than what it's short for." Douglas Adams
>
>_______________________________________________
>Bristol mailing list
>Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
>https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
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End of Bristol Digest, Vol 673, Issue 13
****************************************

Sabtu, 17 Desember 2016

Bristol Digest, Vol 673, Issue 12

Send Bristol mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Postgres optimised h/w (cms)
2. Re: Swapfile by default instead of partiton for... (Amias Channer)
3. Re: Postgres optimised h/w (Martin Moore)
4. Re: Postgres optimised h/w (Jonathan Stone)
5. Re: Postgres optimised h/w (Martin Moore)
6. Fwd: Last LUG Meeting of 2016 this Saturday! Tommorow!
(Samir Benmendil)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 12:06:36 +0000
From: cms <cms@beatworm.co.uk>
To: Martin Moore <martinm@it-helps.co.uk>, Bristol and Bath Linux User
Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Postgres optimised h/w
Message-ID: <4349cf96-8f38-9bd7-f0c9-7f038fcd07ac@beatworm.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 16/12/16 11:01, Martin Moore via Bristol wrote:
> Morning all.
>
> I have a potential requirement for a Debian/Postgres 9.3 server that will handle a relatively high number of unindexable queries (co-ord based, I'll look at GIS but not sure it'll help) that take some time – currently about 6 secs with one query (although that is with a lot of redundant data which I'm currently removing). There could be 50k queries/day. Writes will be minimum. I'll look at further tuning the query, but as it's a function I can't seem to get any plan details for it ☹
>
> So, 1st question – will the 4Gb per process limit of the 32bit pae kernel limit the caching of the database which will be in the 10's of Gb.
>
> Are SSD's now at a stage where they're suitable/reliable for this use – am I safer using RAID 1 mdadm with 1 ssd and 1 hdd (how will it know use the ssd for reads?)
>
> And I presume as much RAM as will fit in the box!
>
> Any other thoughts welcome.
>
>
> Martin.

The 32 bit restriction is interesting in 2016. Is it because you're
locked into architecture dependent binary data pages and don't have the
option to dump and restore to a fresh build? You could replicate to a
warm spare and switch over that way, a full database rebuild doesn't
have to mean outage for the duration of the rebuild.

I think it's very unlikely that your database workload will be either
CPU or IO bound, so worrying about the minutiae of hardware storage
configuration is shaving the wrong end of the yak. 50k transactions a
day and no writes is trivial, you could probably do that on a netbook!

The general critical performance path to do for postgresql is keep the
synchronous WAL throughput isolated from the general system IO -
typically on a separate filesystem, maybe on a different disk
controller, and ensure that has enough IOPs to keep up with your write
load and checkpointing. You need to keep your shared buffers low, your
concurrent connection count ideally smaller than your cpu core count,
and then let linux buffer cache soak up all the data IO. More system RAM
than your working set if you can.

I am also raising an eyebrow at 'unindexable'. PG indexing is really
flexible, and sophisticated in a way that extends way beyond 'btree on
fixed size atomic value' you can define your own index types even, if
you have a particularly weird requirement. (If you are doing spatial
co-ordinates and geometrical sets then yes postgis will definitely help)
Indexing is all about reducing the set size as early as you can, so
there may be additional range fields you can use to partition the search
space. If you can make the sequential sub scans smaller than buffer
cache you're still going to win much harder than any hard disk type.

With regards to reliability and availability, I think again, its 2017,
you should probably be worrying less about defensive hardware planning
for uptime and more about service level rendundancy - given that it's
just a few dozen GB of data and no throughput, many cheap replicas in a
HA arrangement with health monitoring and automated replacement will
beat the hardware failure odds, especially if you scatter it through
'the cloud'.


--
Regards,
Colin M. Strickland, cms, 'that guy'

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 12:14:20 +0000
From: Amias Channer <me@amias.net>
To: Sebastian <sebsebseb_mageia@gmx.com>, Bristol and Bath Linux User
Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Swapfile by default instead of partiton for...
Message-ID:
<CAMgU7XVzzMP6AcTDzHwjyUKVe7e1bodF2fQnczDmRVObtV92CQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hello luggers,

This is an interesting choice , i presume it won't prevent suspend to
disk from resuming properly.

There isn't any difference in speed between swap files and partitions,
unless you are using non solid state storage and need to position the
swap partition at the beginning, something thats very tricky to
achieve and maintain with a swapfile.

I'm not sure there is much to gain from reducing partition counts now
that msdos partition tables are mostly a thing of the past , gpt and
lvm allow as many partitions as anyone will need.

My guess is this is driven by greater ubuntu usage in virtual
environments where swapping is less common due to the different way
workloads are deployed and the fact that the hypervisors do crazy
things with memory pages compared to kernels.

Cheers
Amias


On 16 December 2016 at 19:32, Sebastian via Bristol
<bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
> HI
>
> Been some intereresting news today, Ubuntu news, that for Ubuntu 17.04
> will be a swapfile by default instead of a partition. Not quite sure how
> wthat would work with multiple distros if stored inside Ubuntu. Also
> looking at where I found out again, some comments saying how that woudn't
> really work with BTFS it seems. Anyway wanted to share here for some
> general comments to do with that, (and actually doing so now, was going to
> maybe earlier on it's own or later on in another email),
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/12/ubuntu-17-04-drops-swaps-swap-partitions-swap-files
>
> Regards
>
> Sebastian
>
>
> --
> Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 12:14:22 +0000
From: Martin Moore <martinm@it-helps.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Postgres optimised h/w
Message-ID: <BACC5AB8-1B49-4050-B6CE-EF8E0683534D@it-helps.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On 17/12/2016, 12:06, "cms" <cms@beatworm.co.uk> wrote:


> The 32 bit restriction is interesting in 2016. Is it because you're
> locked into architecture dependent binary data

No – it's other executables, DB can just be dumped and restored.

> I think it's very unlikely that your database workload will be either
> CPU or IO bound, so worrying about the minutiae of hardware storage
> configuration is shaving the wrong end of the yak. 50k transactions a
> day and no writes is trivial, you could probably do that on a netbook!

Not if the queries take a few seconds on a fairly average server!! Also it's not just the ability to keep up with demand, it's how long the user has to wait.


> The general critical performance path to do for postgresql is keep the
> synchronous WAL throughput isolated from the general system IO -
> typically on a separate filesystem, maybe on a different disk
> controller, and ensure that has enough IOPs to keep up with your write
> load and checkpointing.

Not much writing going on so shouldn't be an issue

> I am also raising an eyebrow at 'unindexable'.
The main issue is determining if two rectangles overlap. Not sure how to index that.


Some interesting stuff coming out of this – keep it up!


--
Regards,
Colin M. Strickland, cms, 'that guy'

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 13:49:16 +0000
From: Jonathan Stone <lug@jonstone.org.uk>
To: Martin Moore via Bristol <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Postgres optimised h/w
Message-ID: <20161217134916.GA972@discordia.qaotiq.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 12:14:22PM +0000, Martin Moore via Bristol wrote:
> On 17/12/2016, 12:06, "cms" <cms@beatworm.co.uk> wrote:
>> I think it's very unlikely that your database workload will be either
>> CPU or IO bound, so worrying about the minutiae of hardware storage
>> configuration is shaving the wrong end of the yak. 50k transactions a
>> day and no writes is trivial, you could probably do that on a netbook!
>
> Not if the queries take a few seconds on a fairly average server!!
> Also it???s not just the ability to keep up with demand, it???s how
> long the user has to wait.

If the goal is to reduce the users' response times, then first you
should to get a feel for where the time is being spent today. Is
most of the time being spent waiting on physical IO, on CPU scanning
through the data or on the network throughput/latency getting the
queries and results to and from the database server?

Once you know that you can start to make decisions backed by data.
If most of the time is spent on IO, then either cache more by buying
more RAM, or increase the throughput of the IO system by striping
across more disks or using flash. If most of the time is spent on
CPU, then can the work be parallelised across multiple cores? If
not, then you want a CPU with good single threaded performance in
preference to one with many cores.

The biggest improvements are likely to come from reducing the amount
of work necessary to respond to the user through indexing, pre-computing
or caching parts of the response, etc.

Regards,

Jonathan


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 14:07:19 +0000
From: Martin Moore <martinm@it-helps.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Postgres optimised h/w
Message-ID: <6ED44088-A069-4277-BD26-B39E366223D1@it-helps.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On 17/12/2016, 13:49, "Bristol on behalf of Jonathan Stone via Bristol" <bristol-bounces@mailman.lug.org.uk on behalf of bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:


> If the goal is to reduce the users' response times, then first you
should to get a feel for where the time is being spent today. Is
most of the time being spent waiting on physical IO, on CPU scanning
through the data or on the network throughput/latency getting the
queries and results to and from the database server?


It's the actual query – lots of table scans.

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 14:58:33 +0000
From: Samir Benmendil <me@rmz.io>
To: Sebastian via Bristol <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: [bristol] Fwd: Last LUG Meeting of 2016 this Saturday!
Tommorow!
Message-ID:
<CABOikHG+2exoqQ=VieMk+uYQ4N9Y7r7cY4dohBPkTvMF_1NUuw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Anyone there already? Couldn't find anyone.

On Friday, 16 December 2016, Sebastian via Bristol <
bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk');>> wrote:

> Hi
>
> WOW what a great turn out, WOW, WOW, indeed, what a great turn out, for
> last months November LUG meeting. I remember emailing here on the list
> about how it would be basically good to have a 10 people turn out, and we
> had like 11, including ourselves people who turned up Three from the event
> the previous month it seems as well, well ok two don't really count I guess
> then since were already on the mailing list apparnatly, but still one guy
> did come in from the event. That was good, after running the event and the
> type of event it was, and general turn out it ended up getting, and of
> what kind of people. The big question would be though, can we have a
> about 10 people turn out at the LUG meeting tommorow as well or not? 10
> people turn out is rather impressive, since a lot of people don't come to
> the meetings anymore or rather rarely, that are still on this list. Its not
> just, because quite a few people have moved away from the general, big area
> of, Bristol, Bath, and sourunding areas. Yes our LUG may be mostly social
> chat now for the meetings, rather than helping people with basic to
> advanced support issues, but thats since Desktop Linux is generally much
> easier to use now for most distros, than it used to be, and its been like
> that for many years now.. I been to the LUG meetings since I think it was
> April 2012 I think last month was the biggest turn out of people that
> have ever had it in that time, whilst I have been there, or if not for
> quite a while.
> I would like to meet some of the people who used to come to the LUG
> meetings a lot this Saturday ideally, but I think to keep the in person
> side of this LUG nicely alive, with good turn outs of people for most LUG
> meetings etc, its good now to do things at times that will hopefuly bring
> new people into them, such as events. Next year 2017 should have three
> events it seems, two Linux Presentaiton Day events, and one bigger event
> organised by someone else as well it seems, with public speaking even.
> Which would be quite impressive right?
>
> Tommorow is the Christmas meeting at the Knight's Templar hence a week
> earlier than usual as well, we should be sitting at the table in the left
> hand side corner by the plugs at the back of the pub on the lower level as
> usuaul, or near there instead if someone else not us is already there. The
> first one of us will probably arrive at about 2pm, but for anyone who may
> be new that might be coming tommorow I would suggest not turning up untill
> 2:30pm by the earliest, or may be there on own. As usaul I hope to meet
> new people at the LUG meeting, and I probably won't be there untill about
> 3pm myself, and then laving late about 6pm/7pm. What about other people
> who are intending on coming tommorow? We can eat Christmas dinner there
> tommorow as well, already had some last month, but will again ;). Also I
> been wondering about Samir and what plan he actusally booked for FOSDEM,
> and if our newer person from the event, who is hopefuly on this list now,
> is intending on coming still or not as well.
>
> Anyone got some USB's to bring along tommorow? Yes Linux Live USB's!
> Ideally of more fun distros to so not just common things like Fedora and
> OpenSUSE, and Ubuntu 16.10, but yes please someone bring those along to.
> Oh and the USB's I am after must have support for UEFI. I guess the USB's
> don't have to be Linux though. You see I have bought a interesting mini
> PC, that was going to crowd fund earlier this the year, but didn't reallly
> have the spare money then. The pre installed Windows 10 didn't last that
> long on there at all, more details about that at the LUG meeting
> tommorow. I had a USB stick with Ubuntu 16.04 on it, so put that on.
> Ubuntu 16.04 mostly works on it, altough with some hardware issues, because
> of how the device was only really intended to be made for Windows 10, but
> considering that and how much still just works, that's quite good really.
> For a few things can probably fix onself though. More details tommorow at
> the LUG meeting.
>
> 2016 Regards
>
> Sebastian
>
>
> --
> Sent using Dekko from my Ubuntu device
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol

--
Samir Benmendil

"[The World Wide Web is] the only thing I know of whose shortened form —
www — takes three times longer to say than what it's short for." Douglas
Adams
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End of Bristol Digest, Vol 673, Issue 12
****************************************

Bristol Digest, Vol 673, Issue 11

Send Bristol mailing list submissions to
bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Postgres optimised h/w (Alex Butcher)
2. Re: Postgres optimised h/w (Alex Butcher)
3. Re: Postgres optimised h/w (Alex Butcher)
4. Re: Postgres optimised h/w (Alex Butcher)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 11:36:33 +0000 (GMT)
From: Alex Butcher <lug@assursys.co.uk>
To: Martin Moore <martinm@it-helps.co.uk>, Bristol and Bath Linux
User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Cc: Martin <inkubus@interalpha.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Postgres optimised h/w
Message-ID:
<alpine.LRH.2.11.1612171134340.753@zlgugi.of5.nffheflf.cev>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

On Fri, 16 Dec 2016, Martin Moore via Bristol wrote:

> I've also heard that h/w RAID controllers use their own format which
> renders them useless without the controller.

Not so much their own format, as metadata at one end or the other of the
member discs so that arrays can be automatically assembled/rebuilt. This
does mean that tools such as fdisk may not be able to find the partition
table, because they don't know to skip the metadata.

Best Regards,
Alex

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 11:41:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: Alex Butcher <lug@assursys.co.uk>
To: debian@invux.com, Bristol and Bath Linux User Group
<bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Postgres optimised h/w
Message-ID:
<alpine.LRH.2.11.1612171136420.753@zlgugi.of5.nffheflf.cev>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

On Fri, 16 Dec 2016, Steve King via Bristol wrote:

> Plus you have to replace Cache RAM batteries.

Not necessarily; Adaptec's 5Z series of controllers from 2009 include
persistent flash and a supercapacitor to give the controller enough power to
flush write buffers to it in the event of power failure.
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/25/adaptec_capacitor/>.

Also, to compare apples with apples, you have to also replace UPS batteries.

> I would recommend ECC RAM though.

Seconded, for any server application. Heck, I almost went with ECC on my
last home desktop after observing a few bitflips when copying 10s of GB
across my LAN. My wallet said no, however.

> Steve

Best Regards,
Alex

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 11:49:44 +0000 (GMT)
From: Alex Butcher <lug@assursys.co.uk>
To: Amias Channer <me@amias.net>, Bristol and Bath Linux User Group
<bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Cc: Martin Moore <martinm@it-helps.co.uk>, Martin
<inkubus@interalpha.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Postgres optimised h/w
Message-ID:
<alpine.LRH.2.11.1612171141220.753@zlgugi.of5.nffheflf.cev>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

On Fri, 16 Dec 2016, Amias Channer via Bristol wrote:

> I would definitely agree that software raid is as good as hardware
> raid unless you are a mega corporation, in which case just do it all
> in live RAM anyway. The complexity and proprietary formats make them
> dangerous.

See my point in a previous message about operational costs. It's easy as a
nerd to believe that /anyone/ can successfully use mdadm to rebuild a
degraded array once a disc has failed, but I'd not put money on it in many
organisations.

> Server bioses don't need any more reasons to boot up slowly
> which is usually the case with hardware raid.

Meh. How often do you reboot physical servers?

> Server storage is IMHO really about concurrent access and RAID helped
> improve that on hard disks but its pretty much pointless on SSD/NVMe
> solutions where nothing is spinning and an individual drive can
> saturate the controller. Mirroring in this context is useful but
> really only to slower storage like HDD.

A high performance database server should be aiming to saturate the PCIe
bus (15.75GB/s for PCIe 3.0 x16, 31.51GB/s for PCIe 4.0 x16). That might
require an array of striped (and mirrored, for availability!) SSDs.

One thing a hardware RAID controller does complicate is aligning
partitions/LVM physical/logical volumes and filesystem data structures with
the stripe size, so as to ensure the maximum throughput with multiple
simultaneous threads. Linux's md RAID layer passes up the stripe size of
arrays to higher layers so they can align themselves automagically, but with
hardware RAID, that's the sysadmin's job, sadly.

<https://www.percona.com/blog/2011/06/09/aligning-io-on-a-hard-disk-raid-the-theory/>
<https://anosi.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/lvm-installation-partition-alignment.html>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20150907062944/http://www.penguincomputing.com/current-thinking-regarding-xfs-and-raid-arrays/>
<http://blog.tsunanet.net/2011/08/mkfsxfs-raid10-optimal-performance.html>

> Cheers
> Amias

Best Regards,
Alex

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 11:54:33 +0000 (GMT)
From: Alex Butcher <lug@assursys.co.uk>
To: Nigel Sollars <nsollars@gmail.com>, Bristol and Bath Linux User
Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Cc: Amias Channer <me@amias.net>, Martin <inkubus@interalpha.co.uk>,
Martin Moore <martinm@it-helps.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Postgres optimised h/w
Message-ID:
<alpine.LRH.2.11.1612171150020.753@zlgugi.of5.nffheflf.cev>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

On Fri, 16 Dec 2016, Nigel Sollars via Bristol wrote:

> Isnt raid normally for Corps anyhow?... I mean really unless your a data
> hungry monster whats the point?..

Naw, I've been using it on my home desktops since 2002. My first 120MB HDD
and SCSI controller was nearly £500 in 1993 money, so getting 2x4TB HDDs for
~£270 of relatively-less-valuable-2016 money (about £147 of 1993 money,
according to
<http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/Pages/resources/inflationtools/calculator/flash/default.aspx>)
makes RAID a no-brainer for me.

Also, many modern laptops use Intel's Smart Reponse technology which
effectively builds a partial RAID 1 array between an SSD and a HDD to give
the best of both worlds.

Best Regards,
Alex

------------------------------

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End of Bristol Digest, Vol 673, Issue 11
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