Bristol and Bath Linux: Juli 2014

Selasa, 29 Juli 2014

Bristol Digest, Vol 561, Issue 2

Bristol Digest, Vol 561, Issue 1

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bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: R/C Waveforms for Status Power Plugs (James Pattinson)
2. Re: R/C Waveforms for Status Power Plugs (Peter Hemmings)
3. Re: R/C Waveforms for Status Power Plugs (Amias Channer)
4. Re: R/C Waveforms for Status Power Plugs (Ian Plain)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 17:41:08 +0100
From: James Pattinson <james@pattinson.org>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] R/C Waveforms for Status Power Plugs
Message-ID: <22448A88-9733-4D92-83DA-4AB14D8E0EB6@pattinson.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Hi Peter

How are you getting on with this?

I?m doing something similar, but initially with Arduino. I?ve not had to mess about with Audacity or an oscilloscope or anything, as I?m using a library someone has helpfully already written for this task:

https://code.google.com/p/rc-switch/

Allegedly has Pi compatible code too but not looked at it.

So far I?ve hooked up a very cheap 433MHz receiver module from eBay, run an example program which dumps the output to serial console, and I can see the different codes as I press different buttons on the remote.

Next step is to hook up the transmitter circuit but it looks like it will be pretty straightforward.

Cheers
James

On 25 Jul 2014, at 16:07, Peter Hemmings <peter@hemmings.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have been playing at getting a pi to (eventually) mimic a "R/C" from "Status" power sockets.
>
> I have been following the method below and will have to learn to do a bit of programming using sample scripts!!
>
> http://www.hoagieshouse.com/RaspberryPi/RCSockets/RCPlug.html
>
> I now have a waveform from my R/C (socket 4 -on) and need confirmation of interpretation of the code.
>
> Attached is a copy of the waveform (Audacity) which seems to me to have 25 pulses which I assume is wrong!
>
> The pulse lenghts seem to be of the same proportion as those in the article:
>
> short pulse 2.9usec
> longer pulse 8.95usec
> reset pulse 9.5 milliseconds
>
> I know there are several protocols used for R/C's so need to establish timings/code before going further.
>
> Assuming the small negative pulse is a zero, I think the code is:
> 0100110100000011001111100
>
> but I assume thats not quite correct, any comments/observations?
>
> If anyone is interested I can bring some H/W tomorrow.
>
> BTW it is a very l o n g time since I dabbled with waveforms!
>
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Peter H
> <waveform01.aup>_______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol

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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 20:24:38 +0100
From: Peter Hemmings <peter@hemmings.eclipse.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] R/C Waveforms for Status Power Plugs
Message-ID: <53D6A376.50407@hemmings.eclipse.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Hi,

On 28/07/14 17:41, James Pattinson wrote:
> Hi Peter
>
> How are you getting on with this?

Sorry, I am catching up on things not done during the last 2 months on
crutches and do not have much time atm.
When I do, I will look at the pi programs for getting the "status"
plugs to work.

>
> I?m doing something similar, but initially with Arduino. I?ve not had
> to mess about with Audacity or an oscilloscope or anything, as I?m
> using a library someone has helpfully already written for this task:
>
> https://code.google.com/p/rc-switch/

It looks like the above is for a range of decoder chips.

FYI we took a plug apart on Saturday and it has a chip with a "K"
number, (K2-04 I think). John H thought it was a "special" made for
Status", not sure what is in the remote. I think the arduino program
may not work with my plugs.

>
> Allegedly has Pi compatible code too but not looked at it.

Coding is not my strong point (in fact I have never got beyond visual
basic 30 years ago!). So this may take a while to sort out.

>
> So far I?ve hooked up a very cheap 433MHz receiver module from eBay,
> run an example program which dumps the output to serial console, and
> I can see the different codes as I press different buttons on the
> remote.

Just to clarify Dave's query, the waveform does repeat itself if I keep
the button pressed, I just cut one complete sample for simplicity.

>
> Next step is to hook up the transmitter circuit but it looks like it
> will be pretty straightforward.

Yep, that's what I hope to do with GPIO from the pi. Once I figure out
the program I can put in the parameters, run the program and again
measure the receiver output and compare it to the original.

>
> Cheers James

snip

If you are a coder and look at the pi in the next few weeks, please let
me know your findings as it might save me some time!?

If I manage to make some progress I will post what I learn!

Regards
--
Peter H

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:00:51 +0100
From: Amias Channer <me@amias.net>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] R/C Waveforms for Status Power Plugs
Message-ID:
<CAMgU7XVpwr3fMqnkHVvAzJkuxaejGMsFRfa2_Q9syqC65TNbrw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On 26 July 2014 00:54, David Smith <David.Smith@ds-electronics.co.uk> wrote:

> And your data pattern is:
> IDLE---BABBAABABBBBBBAABBAAAAABB---IDLE
>

Oh i know this one , its by the beach boys , its on the tip of my tounge

Cheers
Amias
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:08:42 +0100
From: Ian Plain <ian@cyber-cottage.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] R/C Waveforms for Status Power Plugs
Message-ID:
<CAPdamw-UrC2FqEHbzJvLWkE=16TVOrcR7bif1iC3YX9c+fUJDg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Why not just use a Tellstick ts001, works ith Pi Linux and macs etc ,

On Monday, July 28, 2014, Peter Hemmings <peter@hemmings.eclipse.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 28/07/14 17:41, James Pattinson wrote:
>
>> Hi Peter
>>
>> How are you getting on with this?
>>
>
> Sorry, I am catching up on things not done during the last 2 months on
> crutches and do not have much time atm.
> When I do, I will look at the pi programs for getting the "status" plugs
> to work.
>
>
>> I?m doing something similar, but initially with Arduino. I?ve not had
>> to mess about with Audacity or an oscilloscope or anything, as I?m
>> using a library someone has helpfully already written for this task:
>>
>> https://code.google.com/p/rc-switch/
>>
>
> It looks like the above is for a range of decoder chips.
>
> FYI we took a plug apart on Saturday and it has a chip with a "K" number,
> (K2-04 I think). John H thought it was a "special" made for Status", not
> sure what is in the remote. I think the arduino program may not work with
> my plugs.
>
>
>> Allegedly has Pi compatible code too but not looked at it.
>>
>
> Coding is not my strong point (in fact I have never got beyond visual
> basic 30 years ago!). So this may take a while to sort out.
>
>
>> So far I?ve hooked up a very cheap 433MHz receiver module from eBay,
>> run an example program which dumps the output to serial console, and
>> I can see the different codes as I press different buttons on the
>> remote.
>>
>
> Just to clarify Dave's query, the waveform does repeat itself if I keep
> the button pressed, I just cut one complete sample for simplicity.
>
>
>> Next step is to hook up the transmitter circuit but it looks like it
>> will be pretty straightforward.
>>
>
> Yep, that's what I hope to do with GPIO from the pi. Once I figure out
> the program I can put in the parameters, run the program and again measure
> the receiver output and compare it to the original.
>
>
>> Cheers James
>>
>
> snip
>
> If you are a coder and look at the pi in the next few weeks, please let me
> know your findings as it might save me some time!?
>
> If I manage to make some progress I will post what I learn!
>
> Regards
> --
> Peter H
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>

--
Thanks
Ian Plain
http://www.cyber-cottage.co.uk
Twitter @cyberco
Skype ba17sw

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_______________________________________________
Bristol mailing list
Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol

End of Bristol Digest, Vol 561, Issue 1
***************************************

Minggu, 27 Juli 2014

Bristol Digest, Vol 560, Issue 8

Sabtu, 26 Juli 2014

Bristol Digest, Vol 560, Issue 7

Bristol Digest, Vol 560, Issue 6

Send Bristol mailing list submissions to
bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
bristol-request@mailman.lug.org.uk

You can reach the person managing the list at
bristol-owner@mailman.lug.org.uk

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Bristol digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Re: SVG relative sizes (Christopher Horler)
2. Re: [OT] The use of anonymity technology by criminal groups
(Bob Ham)
3. Re: [OT] The use of anonymity technology by criminal groups
(Zak Wilcox)
4. Re: R/C Waveforms for Status Power Plugs (David Smith)
5. Re: [OT] The use of anonymity technology by criminal groups
(forus@bts-usa.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:52:40 +0100
From: Christopher Horler <cshorler@googlemail.com>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] SVG relative sizes
Message-ID:
<CAAeT8m9JnVOh5jn8EzL-WgX2s2wsH0Vb4z2pmmKLMb4aAKwkcw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

indeed just like the Earth being flat ... - it turns out the width of 1 em
is not guaranteed to be 1 'M' !

On 25 July 2014 12:10, David Fear <david@dfear.co.uk> wrote:

> On 25/07/14 08:10, Chris wrote:
>
>> Can anyone assist with this?
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24880356/relative-
>> sizes-of-svg-text-and-rect
>>
>> My current understanding is this might be an effect of aspect ratio (but
>> then why no effect on the text) and/or the effect of a user coordinate
>> system.
>>
>> Though this hasn't led to a workable solution. I'm plugging this into a
>> (tidy) tree with a requirement for a constant node size (based on d3 tree
>> layout and quadtree)
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bristol mailing list
>> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>>
>> Hi
>
> This may help.
> http://www.impressivewebs.com/understanding-em-units-css/
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> -----------------------------------
> Dave Fear :: david@dfear.co.uk
>
> Order your free giffgaff SIM card through my page and get 5 pounds free
> credit http://t.co/z1KJF5y
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 19:50:00 +0000
From: Bob Ham <rah@settrans.net>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] [OT] The use of anonymity technology by
criminal groups
Message-ID: <1406317800.11045.9.camel@myrtle.6gnip.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Fri, 2014-07-25 at 09:06 +0000, David Smith wrote:

> > The only way you could be in violation of the law is if you actually requested
> > something illegal from your node and downloaded it.
>
> I don't think that's the /only/ way. For example, if they could prove (or more
> accurately, convince a jury) that you knew that it was being used for illegal
> purposes, even if you weren't participating in those practices yourself, then
> you could probably be prosecuted for "conspiracy to..." or "aiding and abetting..."

Indeed, if they could prove that you knowingly assisted illegal
activities, then you could be prosecuted. The whole point, though, is
that you can't know that.

Your logic is the same as the following:

You know that computers can be compromised through malware and used by
criminal gangs for illegal purposes. You are running a computer right
now. Therefore, you can be prosecuted for "conspiracy to..." or "aiding
and abetting...".

Or, more abstract but closer to the situation with Freenet:

You know that criminals use Internet connections to commit crimes. You
provide Internet access through ADSL to the public. Therefore, you can
be prosecuted for "conspiracy to..." or "aiding and abetting...".

It doesn't work like that. Again, you can't be prosecuted for the
possibility that your computer or service offering is used for crime.
You can only be prosecuted for an actual crime that you have knowingly
participated in.

--
Bob Ham <rah@settrans.net>

for (;;) { ++pancakes; }

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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 22:03:08 +0100
From: Zak Wilcox <iwilcox@iwilcox.me.uk>
To: bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [bristol] [OT] The use of anonymity technology by
criminal groups
Message-ID: <53D2C60C.30202@iwilcox.me.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 25/07/14 20:50, Bob Ham wrote:
> On Fri, 2014-07-25 at 09:06 +0000, David Smith wrote:
>
>>> The only way you could be in violation of the law is if you
>>> actually requested something illegal from your node and
>>> downloaded it.
>>
>> I don't think that's the /only/ way. For example, if they could
>> prove (or more accurately, convince a jury) that you knew that it
>> was being used for illegal purposes, even if you weren't
>> participating in those practices yourself, then you could
>> probably be prosecuted for "conspiracy to..." or "aiding and
>> abetting..."

The William Weber case concluded only a few weeks back; not sure if
this is a decent write-up, but:

<http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/549645/tor_exit_node_operator_convicted_abetting_spread_child_porn/>

> It doesn't work like that. Again, you can't be prosecuted for the
> possibility that your computer or service offering is used for
> crime. You can only be prosecuted for an actual crime that you have
> knowingly participated in.

Now obviously Tor exit nodes don't have Freenet's complete blinding to
content, but that case would seem to suggest you can be prosecuted on
pretty insubstantial no-active-participation grounds, although it's
not clear to me upon superficial reading whether he still had higher
courts to turn to (he stopped owing to bankruptcy) nor whether the
Austrian law invoked there was compatible with EU law. It doesn't
make sense to me that "aware of the possibility" should matter at all
with any good-and-bad-uses technology. "did not appear to disapprove"
--- apparently the strongest evidence they could come up with even
with the freedom to selectively quote --- while troubling if true,
doesn't seem it should be of legal significance.

Someone on HN commented along the same lines as Alex:

> It should be underscored that unless you have access to unlimited
good, free legal help, you probably have no business running an exit
node...

which I'd broadly agree with; it'd be great if everyone did run exit
nodes so that legal questions were settled for good, but since we're
not there yet you need resources or a brazen inner Spartacus to do so.

Perhaps the ORG Bristol list would be a more appropriate venue for this.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 00:54:45 +0100
From: David Smith <David.Smith@ds-electronics.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] R/C Waveforms for Status Power Plugs
Message-ID: <1406332485.10315.40.camel@ubuntu>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Fri, 2014-07-25 at 17:45 +0100, Peter Hemmings wrote:
> On 25/07/14 16:14, David Smith wrote:
> >> -----Original Message----- From: bristol-bounces@mailman.lug.org.uk
> >> [mailto:bristol- bounces@mailman.lug.org.uk] On Behalf Of Peter
> >> Hemmings Attached is a copy of the waveform (Audacity) which seems
> >> to me to have 25 pulses which I assume is wrong!
> >
> > No, the file you've attached seems to be a setup file which tells
> > audacity how to interpret the *actual* waveform files, which are
> > called "e0000ad3.au" and "e0000623.au".
>
> Oops!
>
> Attached is an MS (spit) wav file that most should be able to see - if
> they wish!

What you call a "reset pulse" I think is just "idle" - it's common in
data communication systems for '1' to be the idle value, and then the
signal is pulled low to start communicating. When you press the button,
the remote control will probably transmit the command continuously
whilst the button is depressed, not just once per press.

There is a pattern to the data, repeating every 4 bits. Each 4-bit
pattern is either 0001 or 0111; the first pattern probably indicates
'0', and the second pattern indicates '1' (or vice-versa)

This method of communication is called "Pulse Width Modulation" (PWM) -
the starts of the pulses (the falling edges at the start of each 4-bit
symbol) always occur at equal intervals, but the widths of the pulses
(the time until the rising edge) are different, and that's what encodes
the data.

There are 25 of these symbols per packet, which is the same as the
waveform on the website you quoted.

Measuring from the falling edge of the start bit of the first 4-bit
symbol to the falling edge at the start of the last 4-bit symbol, gives
1270 samples.

Your sample rate is 44100 samples/s, giving a sample period of 22.6 us

Therefore 1270 samples takes 28.80 ms
divide that by the number of bits (24 * 4 = 96) gives:

28.80 ms / 96 = 300 ms per bit
= 3.333 kbit/s

And your data pattern is:
IDLE---BABBAABABBBBBBAABBAAAAABB---IDLE

Where

A = 0001
B = 0111
IDLE = 1

HTH...

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 07:38:28 +0000
From: forus@bts-usa.com
To: "Bristol and Bath Linux User Group" <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] [OT] The use of anonymity technology by
criminal groups
Message-ID:
<1960833221-1406360373-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-751198068-@b27.c11.bise7.blackberry>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Hi,

Well, I am personally glad that you are having this conversation here, I find the topic interesting. Also, I've never heard of this "ORG Bristol" list, what's that?

Fernando
BlackBerry de movistar, all? donde est?s est? tu oficin@

-----Original Message-----
From: Zak Wilcox <iwilcox@iwilcox.me.uk>
Sender: bristol-bounces@mailman.lug.org.uk
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 22:03:08
To: <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Reply-To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] [OT] The use of anonymity technology by criminal
groups

On 25/07/14 20:50, Bob Ham wrote:
> On Fri, 2014-07-25 at 09:06 +0000, David Smith wrote:
>
>>> The only way you could be in violation of the law is if you
>>> actually requested something illegal from your node and
>>> downloaded it.
>>
>> I don't think that's the /only/ way. For example, if they could
>> prove (or more accurately, convince a jury) that you knew that it
>> was being used for illegal purposes, even if you weren't
>> participating in those practices yourself, then you could
>> probably be prosecuted for "conspiracy to..." or "aiding and
>> abetting..."

The William Weber case concluded only a few weeks back; not sure if
this is a decent write-up, but:

<http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/549645/tor_exit_node_operator_convicted_abetting_spread_child_porn/>

> It doesn't work like that. Again, you can't be prosecuted for the
> possibility that your computer or service offering is used for
> crime. You can only be prosecuted for an actual crime that you have
> knowingly participated in.

Now obviously Tor exit nodes don't have Freenet's complete blinding to
content, but that case would seem to suggest you can be prosecuted on
pretty insubstantial no-active-participation grounds, although it's
not clear to me upon superficial reading whether he still had higher
courts to turn to (he stopped owing to bankruptcy) nor whether the
Austrian law invoked there was compatible with EU law. It doesn't
make sense to me that "aware of the possibility" should matter at all
with any good-and-bad-uses technology. "did not appear to disapprove"
--- apparently the strongest evidence they could come up with even
with the freedom to selectively quote --- while troubling if true,
doesn't seem it should be of legal significance.

Someone on HN commented along the same lines as Alex:

> It should be underscored that unless you have access to unlimited
good, free legal help, you probably have no business running an exit
node...

which I'd broadly agree with; it'd be great if everyone did run exit
nodes so that legal questions were settled for good, but since we're
not there yet you need resources or a brazen inner Spartacus to do so.

Perhaps the ORG Bristol list would be a more appropriate venue for this.

_______________________________________________
Bristol mailing list
Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Bristol mailing list
Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol

End of Bristol Digest, Vol 560, Issue 6
***************************************

Jumat, 25 Juli 2014

Bristol Digest, Vol 560, Issue 5

Bristol Digest, Vol 560, Issue 4

Kamis, 24 Juli 2014

Bristol Digest, Vol 560, Issue 3

Send Bristol mailing list submissions to
bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
bristol-request@mailman.lug.org.uk

You can reach the person managing the list at
bristol-owner@mailman.lug.org.uk

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Bristol digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. [OT] The use of anonymity technology by criminal groups (Martin)
2. Re: [OT] The use of anonymity technology by criminal groups
(Bob Ham)
3. Re: Meeting this Saturday! (d.hockin)
4. Re: [OT] The use of anonymity technology by criminal groups
(Alex Butcher)
5. Re: [OT] The use of anonymity technology by criminal groups
(Amias Channer)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:14:13 +0100
From: Martin <inkubus@interalpha.co.uk>
To: bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
Subject: [bristol] [OT] The use of anonymity technology by criminal
groups
Message-ID: <1406139253.22923.203.camel@raphael>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi all,
This is probably a bit OT but I know we have a number of people
here who know and care about cryptographic and privacy protecting tools.
A reasonably common claim in discussions over Internet surveillance laws
is that they are necessary to track down paedophiles / terrorists /
communists / anarchists / spies of the Austro-Hungarian empire / agents
of Napolean / catholics / etc. however we rarely actually see any
evidence of this. The following two articles are on a child pornography
group who made use of Tor, gpg and a number of other technologies:

[NSFW, content warning for those who don't wish to read about this sort
of thing, etc.]
http://grugq.github.io/blog/2013/12/01/yardbirds-effective-usenet-tradecraft/
http://dee.su/uploads/baal.html

I don't think I am going to comment on this other than to say it is
interesting to see the evidence that this sort of thing is an issue.

Cheers,
- Martin

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:55:50 +0000
From: Bob Ham <rah@settrans.net>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] [OT] The use of anonymity technology by
criminal groups
Message-ID: <1406145350.30975.14.camel@myrtle.6gnip.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Wed, 2014-07-23 at 19:14 +0100, Martin wrote:
> The following two articles are on a child pornography
> group who made use of Tor, gpg and a number of other technologies:

> it is
> interesting to see the evidence that this sort of thing is an issue.

This is not a new issue. Tor has been around since 2002 (12 years),
Freenet has been around since 2000 (14 years) and GPG has been around
since 1999 (15 years). There has been plenty of "evidence" before.
I'll bring your attention to the Freenet FAQ:

"Q. What about child porn, offensive content or terrorism?
A. While most people wish that child pornography and terrorism did not
exist, humanity should not be deprived of their freedom to communicate
just because of how a very small number of people might use that
freedom.

Q. I don't want my node to be used to harbor child porn, offensive
content or terrorism. What can I do?
A. The true test of someone who claims to believe in Freedom of Speech
is whether they tolerate speech which they disagree with, or even find
disgusting. If this is not acceptable to you, you should not run a
Freenet node."

https://freenetproject.org/faq.html#childporn

--
Bob Ham <rah@settrans.net>

for (;;) { ++pancakes; }
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 00:13:33 +0100
From: "d.hockin" <d.hockin@btinternet.com>
To: "Bristol and Bath Linux User Group" <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] Meeting this Saturday!
Message-ID: <19EFC76F2E3A4F1CAA74E2F6408AB378@DAVE3>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

I can't make it as I'll be on the Portishead Camera Club stand at the
Portishead Flower Show.
Dave (Posset)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <cshorler@googlemail.com>
To: "Bristol and Bath Linux User Group" <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [bristol] Meeting this Saturday!

> On 22 July 2014 19:54:08 BST, Peter Hemmings
> <peter@hemmings.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>For those of you who might have forgotten, it's the fourth Saturday of
>>
>>July at the weekend!
>>
>>
>>I will try to hobble along.
>>
>>
>>All the details are on the site:
>>
>>http://www.bristol.lug.org.uk/
>>
>>(Yes I know it needs updating)
>>
>>
>>Regards
>
> I'll be there about 13.30.
>
> People who haven't been before should note most people won't arrive until
> after 13.30
>
> Chris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:07:16 +0100 (BST)
From: Alex Butcher <lug@assursys.co.uk>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] [OT] The use of anonymity technology by
criminal groups
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1407241059380.7047@nffheflf.pb.hx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014, Bob Ham wrote:

> I'll bring your attention to the Freenet FAQ:

[snip[

> Q. I don't want my node to be used to harbor child porn, offensive
> content or terrorism. What can I do?
> A. The true test of someone who claims to believe in Freedom of Speech
> is whether they tolerate speech which they disagree with, or even find
> disgusting. If this is not acceptable to you, you should not run a
> Freenet node."
>
> https://freenetproject.org/faq.html#childporn

And this is why I don't run a Freenet node.

I firmly support Freedom of Speech, but I equally firmly believe that images
of child abuse are not speech that warrants protection (in the same way that
shouting 'Fire' in a crowded theatre doesn't either).

"Terrorism" is rather more vague; radical, even violent, views would fall
within my conception of speech that warrants protection, but terror
/operation planning/ would not.

So whilst I have both a philosophical and legal risk objection to running a
Freenet node that ends up hosting images of child abuse, I don't necessarily
have a similar philosophical objection to running a Freenet node that ends
up hosting radical/violent literature. In practice, the issue is moot as UK
law is sufficient (i.e. mere possession being an offence) to dissuade me
from risking my own liberty to run a node.

Best Regards,
Alex

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 12:08:08 +0100
From: Amias Channer <me@amias.net>
To: Bristol and Bath Linux User Group <bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [bristol] [OT] The use of anonymity technology by
criminal groups
Message-ID:
<CAMgU7XVHYuWJd7sWbHvDNC8vAn4PWSzw1R1d7nekHw46=B9ygQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello BBlug,

These are social problems , technology cannot and should not attempt to fix
them.

We need to build a society where people care about each other and don't let
abused people continue to abuse others , that is the solution.

i worked for a tech company where one of the sysadmins (who was
frighteningly clever) got done for child porn , nobody could have stopped
him technically.

Censorship of any kind buries the problem and so is only to be applied by
the individual apon themselves.

Cheers
Amias

On 24 July 2014 11:07, Alex Butcher <lug@assursys.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Jul 2014, Bob Ham wrote:
>
> I'll bring your attention to the Freenet FAQ:
>>
>
> [snip[
>
>
> Q. I don't want my node to be used to harbor child porn, offensive
>> content or terrorism. What can I do?
>> A. The true test of someone who claims to believe in Freedom of Speech
>> is whether they tolerate speech which they disagree with, or even find
>> disgusting. If this is not acceptable to you, you should not run a
>> Freenet node."
>>
>> https://freenetproject.org/faq.html#childporn
>>
>
> And this is why I don't run a Freenet node.
>
> I firmly support Freedom of Speech, but I equally firmly believe that
> images
> of child abuse are not speech that warrants protection (in the same way
> that
> shouting 'Fire' in a crowded theatre doesn't either).
>
> "Terrorism" is rather more vague; radical, even violent, views would fall
> within my conception of speech that warrants protection, but terror
> /operation planning/ would not.
>
> So whilst I have both a philosophical and legal risk objection to running a
> Freenet node that ends up hosting images of child abuse, I don't
> necessarily
> have a similar philosophical objection to running a Freenet node that ends
> up hosting radical/violent literature. In practice, the issue is moot as
> UK
> law is sufficient (i.e. mere possession being an offence) to dissuade me
> from risking my own liberty to run a node.
>
> Best Regards,
> Alex
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bristol mailing list
> Bristol@mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bristol
>
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Bristol and Bath Linux